Norvel .061 and Bratco Hexdrone UC review and flight report

nitroairplane wrote:That is cool, you know about the norvel break in right?
And since it is a flight report may I move this to modes and modelling?

Any break in tips are welcome! This is my first NV engine. However, I did the cold break in, spin it over for 2 minutes with the head off and oil in the crankcase and cylinder as per the instructions. I'm hoping to get break in runs in here in the next few days when the weather clears up.
And sure you can move it. I though since it wasn't a COX product it should go in off topic. but yeah the models and modeling section is cool.

Thanks,
Shawn

Shawn,
Think you are right on following the break in instructions to the letter. Have heard a lot of ways to break in the Norvel but no use to confuse the issue. Can't wait to see the Hexdrone screaming on video...
Steve

Hello all,
Here are a few pics. I'm not the best photographer so I apologize for the low quality close ups.
Hopefully you guys will be able to tell if the engine is a new old stock or a new production.

Shawn

Update.
Unfortuantely, I am unable to run my .061 as I do not have the right fuel. The guy from NV recommended not to use any fuel that has less than a 20% oil blend of 1/2 Castor and 1/2 Synthetic. I ordered a couple of quarts of 25% Champion fuel from SIG and it should be here by next Thursday at the latest.

Shawn

Hello all,
I got my SIG Champion 1/2a fuel today and I decided to run the first tank. Even though I followed the instructions to the T, it was nothing but trouble from the start! The engine would flood out and not run unless I disconnected the fuel tank vent line from the muffler and once I finally got it running, it quite after about 30-40 seconds and it would not restart. After checking everything over, I found that the glow plug went bad!
In all my years in this hobby, I have never had a glow plug go out that fast! So now I have to wait for new spare glow plugs to arrive and I am hoping that NV will warranty one of them. Anyone ever have these issues with their Norvel .061?


Shawn

Hello Shawn, the Revlite cylinder engines can be a bit difficult to break in initially. They usually have one heck of a pinch at top dead center. Breaking in engines can also be hard on plugs as well. Blowing a plug during the break in period isn't all that uncommon. Did they include break in instructions with the Revlite cylinder. My instructions from Norvel was as follows: Remove glow plug from engine and rear backplate. Thoroughly flush inside of crankcase and cylinder with kerosene or alcohol. It even said gasoline but I don't recommend that. Raise the piston slightly above the ports and fill cylinder with straight castor oil. This is due to the ceramic coated aluminum being porous. Leave oil in cylinder a minimum of 24 hrs. Pour oil out and with glow plug removed bolt a prop onto the crank. Rotate engine in the OPPOSING direction that it runs a minimum of 400 rotations. If at any time the piston locks at top dead center DO NOT FORCE IT OVER. Use a hair dryer or heat gun and heat cylinder slightly. It doesn't have to be extremely hot as the thermal expansion will quickly allow for the prop to turn over. Keep turning keeping oil within the cylinder. If the piston gets stuck reheat and keep flipping until it flips by hand fairly easy. Wash out oil and reinstall plug. Fuel engine with required fuel . Engine may be troublesome initially at start up. Do not run the engine rich typical to a iron piston steel sleeve design. Keep engine in a two cycle as you want to quickly generate heat at first and run for 2-3 minute intervals. Running rich can cause premature piston sleeve wear and is very hard on the con rod due to the cylinder liner not thermally expanding adequately. Completely let the engine cool before restarting. Repeat the 2-3 min runs for 20 min. At the 10 min interval the engine rpm's should be increasing and the fuel line should be pinched repeatedly to lean the engine even further in 1-2 second bursts. The engine should be getting easier to start as well. I basically copied what was written although there was some other things like prop information. When Norvel had their website a few years ago prior to Sig taking the product line, this is where I received this info. I even read a later post from Norvel saying that the front of the crank could be lightly chucked into a drill press and with the plug removed holding the crankcase with a glove turn the drill press on for 2-3 min. I assume this was simpler than doing it by hand as they originally claimed above. I've used that tank/mount only once. Mine in fact had a leak in it. Not one that was leaking fuel but air. I would take that assembly and with the a piece of fuel line still attached to the pickup take a syringe and inflate the tank as if you were trying to blow it up. I would do this with the tank submerged and water and check for bubbles. Any air leaks are going to have a substantial effect on that engine running correctly. When you do get a new plug, it wouldn't hurt to add an additional head gasket or two. These can always be removed later. In addition, a unbalanced prop can also scramble a plug. Flipping a flooded engine can also scramble the plug. Not that this is what happened just a good practice not to do. You may just want to close the needle all the way down and run the engine on short prime runs backing the needle out until you get it running. I know you may be faced with noise restrictions. The muffler can also increase make the engine difficult at first to start. I generally break the engine in without it. If you were using muffler pressure at first, I would try it without until you get a few minutes of run time on the engine. This may have been why the engine was flooding at first. I would certainly say that some engines are just problematic when they're new. These engines though generally become very friendly and good running. Ken

Hi Ken, Thanks for the reply.
I did everything the instructions said to do. I just couldn't understand why it would not run with the vent tube connected to the muffler. And as far as the glow plug goes, in the 30+ years I've been in this hobby, I've never had a glow plug go bad after only 30 or so seconds of run time!
After doing some searching, I found that the Norvel glow plug inserts have a much higher failure rate compared to other glow plug brands. I also found out that the NV .061 will run just fine with a standard COX .049 glow plug. The compression is a little lower with the COX plug and the stock 3 shims, but it runs fine none the less. I just wish it would run with a muffler vent connected to the tank instead of just flooding out.

Shawn

I don't understand the problem, muffler pressure can never flood an engine. But if you use the muffler pressure you need to screw in the needle a little, as compared to running without it.

Soaking in castor can help, but I would never ever turn over a cold engine without a glow plug in it, that's just asking for it to bite at TDC. The trick is to preheat the cylinder with a hot air gun or a small handheld torch, the pinch will then go away and you can start it as usual. A spring starter is anice aid for when it fires but doesn't quite want to stay running. The spring then gives you a little extra flip speed.

You must be careful to not flood the engine as this can wash away the oil film on the cylinder, and it then bites at TDC. If that happens, heat the cylinder again to get it free and lubricate with pure castor oil. Then prime and run again.

I have never had any Norvel glowplugs burn out with 1.2-1,5V batteries, what power source were you using?

+1 on Surfer_Kris' post.

When breaking in a NORVEL (first runs), I will many times remove the muffler for the first few starts. If the engine appears flooded, blowing into an open exhaust port helps clear it out. I don't flip cold to free up the TDC pinch --- I'm inclined to think that this technique came about after SIG bought out the distributorship from Ed Stevens, probably because many folks were having difficulty getting their NORVELs to start initially. The break-in procedure for these engines differs from what most people were used to.

I also use heat for freeing up the TDC pinch, not spinning until it wears in.

My experience with the NORVEL plugs is that they are very long lived --- just be sure to avoid contaminated fuel or using rubber fuel blubs, including syringes with rubber seals. I use only an all nylon syringe for fueling.

I had some Sig that used to extinguish my glow plugs. I would wash them with a hard spray of denatured alcohol and dry them and they would light again.

RknRusty wrote:I had some Sig that used to extinguish my glow plugs. I would wash them with a hard spray of denatured alcohol and dry them and they would light again.

Was it just a bad batch of fuel?