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Post  ZACATTACK Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:01 am

what is the little nipple pretruding out of the crank case cover on the Medallion and Tee Dee series of engines?
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Post  mitchg95 Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:32 am

ZACATTACK wrote: what is the little nipple pretruding out of the crank case cover on the Medallion and Tee Dee series of engines?

on the carb body? ive been wondering that to, i think its for the snap starter but then again i could be wrong. one of our smarter members will probably chime in in a while
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Post  RknRusty Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:16 am

You bore through the aluminum underneath it for a crankcase pressure tap. Then plug your fuel tank pressure tube onto the nipple. It is pulsed pressure, and I hear backplate taps work better. If you ever buy an engine that won't run, check to see if it's been bored. You have to plug it.
Starter springs did not exist until Bernie started making them.

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Post  nitroairplane Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:49 am

RknRusty wrote:You bore through the aluminum underneath it for a crankcase pressure tap. Then plug your fuel tank pressure tube onto the nipple. It is pulsed pressure, and I hear backplate taps work better. If you ever buy an engine that won't run, check to see if it's been bored. You have to plug it.
Starter springs did not exist until Bernie started making them.

Yes but I have to disagree on what's better, the nipple works best because it is perfect pressure and times to when you need it.
With the backplate you get both under and over pressure during a cycle.
And starter springs were around way before Bernie started but never for any of the medallions or 049+ tee dees.
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Post  RknRusty Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:58 am

nitroairplane wrote:
RknRusty wrote:You bore through the aluminum underneath it for a crankcase pressure tap. Then plug your fuel tank pressure tube onto the nipple. It is pulsed pressure, and I hear backplate taps work better. If you ever buy an engine that won't run, check to see if it's been bored. You have to plug it.
Starter springs did not exist until Bernie started making them.

Yes but I have to disagree on what's better, the nipple works best because it is perfect pressure and times to when you need it.
With the backplate you get both under and over pressure during a cycle.
And starter springs were around way before Bernie started but never for any of the medallions or 049+ tee dees.
As usual, regarding pressure,I still learn something every day. I have never used crankcase pressure in my CL adventures. I did know that about the springs, I just failed to state it clearly.

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Post  Ken Cook Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:17 am

I've tried the pressure fittings in many applications. I was only ever to get it work one time. I've had so many problems getting a Tee Dee to work I pretty much gave up. The nipple is on the carb body is extremely problematic. One it is too small. An easy fix is to take a 4-40 blind nut and file the ears off of it. You can then thread this onto the plastic nipple and you will get a barbed end that won't allow the tubing to fall off. Even though the pressure is timed, it just doesn't always give positive results and still causes surging. I've tried countless different venturi's and have the same problems all the time. The backplate pressure for me caused results far worse than the carb nipple. You absolutely need a fine thread KK or 128 tpi needle to finely adjust the needle for this to work. The tank has to be set up correctly as well. Switching to a bladder solved all of my problems. I truly feel the Tee Dee suffers from fuel draw inconsistency and the bladder compensates for this problem. For those that have used pressure set ups, I would love to see pictures. I would also like to know tank design, venturi size (stock or drilled and also what size). I recently tried a one way valve setup from Fourmost. This works but you still need hemostats to stop the crankcase from flooding while initially cranking the engine. I absolutely can't get one of these engines to work in profile speed planes. Any information will be gladly read and retained. Thanks, Ken
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Post  proctor Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:06 pm

Hi Shawn,
When I flew large aerobatic planes on glow engines I used backplate press
with non return valve going to tank and from tank to a simple regulator
situated next to fuel inlet on carb. Can remember name of regulator
but made in USA and it worked similar to a Walbro carb, engine took fuel
as it needed and it would not flood engine. Idea was you could put tank
anywhere on model.
For 4-strokes it worked with a non return valve after press nipple on
silencer, in fact last one I used was on a Saito 100. Worked great
constant fuel feed through all the tricks. See no reason why it would
not work just as well on CL. Sorry I cant think of the name but it
will be in the "archive" in the attic. Regulator was real small and
could be used on any size plane. John
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Post  tubebass Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:31 pm

Hey Shawn,
Are you referring to a pressure bladder or a non-pressure balloon type tank?
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Post  tubebass Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:32 pm

Proctor, would that be a Kline regulator?
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Post  RknRusty Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:41 pm

The only TD I use is an .049 on a 1/2A profile, and it's so far the only TD I have any experience with. I first tried a wedge and then a balloon with no pressure. I finally got a TT needle valve and use a pressure bladder with consistent results. The only pain is having to make a new bladder every time I take it out to fly. I need to get a few more fittings so I can have ready made spares in the box.

I'm building a Baby Flitestreak which I have a TD .051 for, and the plans call for a 3/4oz wedge tank. I'll try it but I bet I switch to a bladder soon. I have heard about pressure regulators and wondered if it was something I would benefit from, but I don't know how it works. Maybe a vacuum at its outlet causes it to release and feed full bladder pressure? But then how does it know when the engine shuts off? And does that work with a bored venturi? I always thought the best thing about bladders is that it eliminates the need for venturi vacuum.

So much to know about these simple looking toys. I love 'em.

EDIT: Wow, two posters while I was writing that. Answered my own question:
http://www.billsroom.com/pcfs/fuelsystemdesc.html

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Post  proctor Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:57 pm

tubebass wrote:Proctor, would that be a Kline regulator?

Yes it was. The only downside was a lot of pressure built up in tank,
just an ordinary plastic tank and there was always chance of plumbing
leaks inside model but the Kline worked just fine.
Thanks for reminding me, saved a trip to the attic. John
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Post  tubebass Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:03 pm

proctor wrote:
tubebass wrote:Proctor, would that be a Kline regulator?

Yes it was. The only downside was a lot of pressure built up in tank,
just an ordinary plastic tank and there was always chance of plumbing
leaks inside model but the Kline worked just fine.
Thanks for reminding me, saved a trip to the attic. John
Any idea where to get one? It sounds like a good solution for a Tee Dee, but I also want one for my Dynajet!
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:20 pm

Just to clarify, I have only benefited from using a Tee Dee when running a bladder. I see there may be a difference of terminology here. A bladder to me is always pressure. I know others use a balloon of some type. I refer to those as a slack tank or balloon tank. As for the 3/4oz. wedge, I never had one of those work for a Tee Dee. Don't get me wrong, they will make the engine run. The problem is that in hard maneuvers, the fuel runs away from the pickup tube. I've tried making the tank uniflow but that doesn't seem to work very well in the wedge tanks I've tried it on. I have a 3/4 wedge that works terrifically on a Norvel Big Mig though. I'm just puzzled by this. I know that I'm talking about two different engines but I assume the higher rpm Norvel just keeps adequate fuel draw. This is exactly why I feel the Tee Dee venturi is suspect here as it just may be too large for positive fuel draw on a suction tank. Maybe another reasoning why some switch out the stock Tee Dee body for the Medallion. This is something I've never tried. I have discovered though, especially in the event your using the wedge that the pickup is way to the outside. This now means that not only does the fuel have to travel a longer distance to get to the needle it's fighting additional centrifugal force to get there. If your not already aware, I'm referring to a control line setup. For instance on a profile model that your standing directly over looking down, the closer you can move your pickup to the fuselage the happier the engine will be. The wedge puts your pickup way outboard. I will post some pictures of some of my setups when I get a chance. This is why I chose to run crankcase pressure. I did some extensive testing to the point that I just gave up trying. Shawn
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Post  proctor Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:34 pm

Rusty,
With the Kline regulator you get consistent tank pressure right
up to the regulator, right through the flight to the last drop
in tank. No leak past to engine needle, so no flooding before
you start engine. Procedure I used was to crank engine over
with starter for 10 or so turns to build up pressure in tank
apply glow stick and start engine. No fuel draw problems with
large or small venturi. Two stroke I was using was a rear
exhaust OS 61 on a pipe, it was a racing engine so had a sizable
venturi. Someone cleverer can maybe explain how demand
system worked, diaphrams and such. Was not that expensive
if I could afford it at the time but it certainly did what it said on tin.
John
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Post  proctor Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:42 pm

Sorry guys if my last couple of posts have been butting in to
CL matters which is obviously your main interest. If
the Kline was any good in CL I suppose everybody would be using
it. Will butt out now. John
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Post  tubebass Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:56 pm

proctor wrote:Sorry guys if my last couple of posts have been butting in to
CL matters which is obviously your main interest. If
the Kline was any good in CL I suppose everybody would be using
it. Will butt out now. John

I would certainly like to try one on a Tee Dee .049 RC. I believe it would solve the problem I had where the engine wanted to quit very rich when the nose was lowered, like for a low pass over the runway.
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Post  proctor Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:16 pm

Here possibly, may be out of date.

http://www.billsroom.com/pcfs/Ordering%20Info.html
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Post  fit90 Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:38 pm

I love to run Tee Dees on crank case pressure. Other than a pressure tapped backplate, the only other change to the engine is to chang the NVA to a fine thread NVA. The fuel tank is a standard two line tank hooked up in the standard fashion. The pressure line from the engine goes to the tank's vent and the other line goes to the engine's carb. Disconnect the pressure line when fueling and fill the tank through the line that goes to the carb. After the tank is full reconnect the lines and start cranking. DO NOT PRIME!!! The crank case pressure will do that for you. If the engine is stopped before the tank is empty the engine will flood. Disconnect the two lines, loosen the glow plug or glow head and crank until the engine is ready to go again then reconnect the lines and just start over. I posted a video of a pressure tapped reedie a while back. Same procedure. I will try to find it and repost or at least bump it back up.

Good luck if you try it. The only difficult part is getting the initial needle setting. I prefer to actually start the engine lean and then richen it up after the engine is running. You can be really aggressive on the leaning with a pressure fed fuel source.

Bob
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Post  fit90 Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:41 pm

Got lazy and just bumped it
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Post  RknRusty Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:23 pm

Lots of good information here. I'll have some time to decide what setup to use on the Streak. Regarding the wedge, I had thought about mounting it inboard so the centrifugal force would help push fuel into the engine. But the more I thought about it, I bet what would happen is, when I do anything other than round and round, such as looping, the pressure would drop and the engine would lean out.

So I just don't think anything is better than a bladder force feeding the engine for my CL planes. Now, finally I will have a beam mount plane that can carry one in the place designed to carry the fuel. I can hang a bladder in the same place that was intended for the wedge. I just need to make it a quick change system with a convenient pinch-off for cranking.

It took me a few tries to learn not to set the needle too rich on the ground. Last time I flew, I set it as rich as it would go, right at the very edge of slowing but not quite. And it flew full bore screaming, steadier than I had ever had it before. I'm still learning. Does that sound like I'm needling it right? I didn't really start with the bladder until Winter was upon us (got my first TD in November), so I haven't had a lot of practice. Saturday was only my third excursion with the Texas Timers equipment.

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Post  ZACATTACK Thu May 03, 2012 1:52 am

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Post  RknRusty Thu May 03, 2012 10:06 am

I really don't like that method of pressing the drive plate back on. They are calling it the thrust washer in that paper. I use a prop with a screw and some washers to press it back on. Make sure you go back into the existing spline grooves.

We have parallel threads going. This is similar to Bob's thread on "Starting a pressurized Cox."
http://coxengineforum.forumakers.com/t1222-starting-a-pressurized-cox
I would merge it, but I'm passing through in a hurry right now. Maybe I'll get to it later.

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