Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

**RknRusty** Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:48 pm

Finally the monsoons have tapered off and the club field at Fort Jackson was mowed. This week I pre-flighted the Shoestring including putting a new fuel tank on it. John Brodak replaced my other one, saying he had heard of the bubble problem. This one works right, no bubbles crossing over from the uni vent. And Thank you Ken Cook for mentioning in some old thread, to affix a balsa shield on the front of the tank. My engine coughed in the middle of the second bottom inside of a vertical 8 and she hit hard on the landing gear. Didn't flip, and the nose didn't impact, but it bent the aluminum LG. I straightened it, and then upon inspection, I saw a big dent from an engine backplate bolt in the 1/8" epoxy painted wood on the front of the tank. I'm so glad all the tin is unscathed. That is something I'll always do from now on.

I've been able to bust out V8s with the Baby Streak with good neat results. I probably shouldn't have been trying this in the wind today. T-storm winds started blowing in during my last flight and I should have known it would be trouble. I wish I'd tried it before then, but it was part of my mission and I was not going to finish without doing it. This big plane behaved in a way I've never experienced with a small one. At the top of inside loops, she would float and not follow my control input on around the bottom. Still tight lines, but it caused me to either finish the maneuver by aborting to an inverted lap, or force the loop to finish by pulling hard up, resulting in a wide horizontal oval. I finally did a fairly neat one, unfortunately off camera. On another one, I did one decent V8 and was going for a double. I didn't do the top half high enough, but I should have had enough air to finish it. That's when the engine coughed. I was so enthralled with doing stunts, I forgot to lay off and fly out the rest of the fuel. After the big wheel hop, I only drew a quarter ounce out of the tank... my bad. I caused my beautiful plane to leave a divot. Watch the dirt fly in the video. Rolling Eyes

I didn't bother to try my new props, because stooge flying these planes is to much like work anyway. Since the one I had on it works, I just left it. The props I'm talking about are the ones my LHS ordered for me. I asked for Master Airscrew GF series 9x5 props and gave him the part #. When they came, they were wood props. Really cool looking with yellow tips. But I'm wondering how the Thunder Tiger is going to behave with the lighter wood. I'll try next time because my black plastic MA 9x5 is looking sorta rough.

I had the BFS with me to log some Cox contest time, but the storm cut me short. I would have flown the SS again too. I got three flights before I had to pack out.

I'll crunch some video tonight, and post it on the Tube.

Rusty

Kim Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:04 pm

Looking forward to the video !!!! The "Stunt Hypnosis" has taken a lot of good men !!!!!

**Cribbs74** Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:53 pm

Anytime you leave with an intact plane it was a good day. What you describe with no control sounds like a sticking bellcrank. Hope that's not it. Looking forward to the video.

Ron

**RknRusty** Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:27 pm

I don't think it was equipment, just me starting a loop in the wrong place and hitting headwinds at the top, suddenly getting extra lift. I seemed to be getting confused about that. I was having kind of a dumb day. Also my excuse is, I've only had two real outings since April while the plane was dialed in, so it's still new to me. I need practice. I expect my outings to be more frequent during the last half of the Summer.

The video is saving in Moviemaker now, so it'll start uploading to the Tube soon.

**Cribbs74** Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:53 pm

Yeah, that happens to me too when I do stunts in the wrong place, except I lose tension when the wind hits the plane. Looking forward to the video

**RknRusty** Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:12 pm

How are you guys embedding Youtube videos that allow full screen now? My old ones in other posts from before the forum software changed still work. It just shows a small box with the video in it. But that's like watching s flight through a keyhole. Nothing I do now seems to work. Ron, yours allow full screen, how did you manage that?

Anyway, here's a link to the Tube so you can click it up to whatever size you want:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCyIGTy2gY&feature=youtu.be

**Cribbs74** Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:35 pm

Well shoot Rusty! That was some good flying. That TT was actually 4-2ing for you, it appears the plane is trimmed out very well and does exactly what you want it to. I really need to build mine!

If anything the engine run seemed rich, but again the power came on when you wanted it most times. Apart from the dirt cloud it looked great! Heck even the dirt cloud was impressive!

Seems like your tank troubles are over, I wonder if that engine would like a leaner run? Might keep it tighter in the overhead stuff. Truth be told I like it when the Fox leans as I have all the power I need and the lines stay much tighter.

I assume the SS is ok after the forced landing? Looks like the ground was soft. Great video, thanks for that.

Ron

Edit: To answer your YouTube question all I have been doing is posting the link inside the YouTube icon in the task bar.

**RknRusty** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:22 am

When the T-Tiger goes fully lean, which it didn't do yesterday, it must have about a 6 pound pull. It startled me the first time I ever flew it. It's really tricky to find the spot with the needle, and I can't do it without the tach on every start. It does not like to be rich at all. Once it gets the slightest bit over rich, it won't recover unless I pinch the tube and get it back to full speed, then slowly adjust it. And the thing is, I have to adjust it on every start. I think if I get a hot plug it might be more cooperative. It has a medium heat OS #8 right now. I might ask for recommendations on that. Maybe there's such thing as an OS#8 hot. I haven't searched yet.

I did find an MA 9x5 on eBay for $3.98 and free shipping, so I ordered one. I would have broken a woody yesterday. But there is no damage to the plane except the bent LG. And I think it's homemade out of soft stock aluminum. I easily straightened it with pliers. I bottomed out in a loop once before and bent it. That's how the rock got inside the wing, when the hubs punched a small hole in the Monokote. That's what the tickety tick in the wing was. I don't remember if I ever posted that. I always worry about the front ball bearing in these cases, but it seems clean. I didn't rotate the prop until I flushed it with alcohol and followed with oil.

Really? I'm glad you think that was good flying. I'm too hard on myself, and the mistakes glare to me. I can't break the 1/2A habit and learn to go up to the full 45 degrees. Those V8s are supposed to take the top loop straight overhead. I did a couple of shallow wingovers yesterday, but I could swear the good ones go straight overhead. But the video doesn't agree. Maybe it's an illusion. I saw onr that was straight away from the camera and it looked like it did. I also did my first wingover from inverted, but did an upright pullout. I have yet to pull out inverted. I made more gentle roll outs yesterday. I had been snapping out before, but it's hard to level off after those without wavering or climbing. I did better on some. The wind doesn't bother this plane much if I don't mess up where I start the stunts. If I'd had one more flight, I would have tried an overhead 8. But I've started doing proper horizontals, and starting with a full insider before breaking into the 8. But my intersections still suck. But this was the first outing where I got the right engine run on every flight, so now I have time to concentrate on getting the maneuvers in the proper shape. I just need to learn to use all of the air and not make such compact turns. You'll like the SS, I think, because it really can turn like a small plane.

**RknRusty** Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:05 pm

Here are a few numbers I could scratch together. I bought a $10 stopwatch at Wal Mart, but the buttons double and triple click, so it's a hunk of junk. I almost plowed the field fiddling with it, so I gave it up Sunday. But I sat in front of my raw AVIs and timed some flights. It varied only slightly from one run to the next, but here's what I came up with.

Lap time-normal: 5.2 seconds / Inverted: 5.0 seconds
Engine run time: 5:13 on 3 ounces= 1:44 per ounce
Launch at 11,600 rpm with a 9x5 prop. Full lean is somewhere in the 13,xxx rpm range.

I doubt if that information is useful or comparable to anything else, just my observations. This engine doesn't really do a 4-2-4, but I would call it R-L-R (Rich-Lean-Rich), and it does it pretty well. I'm spending up to a full minute of fuel needling it and walking to the handle on every flight. I think I'll try a hot plug and see if it helps it needle more easily. I described that in more detail in my flight report.

Rusty

**Cribbs74** Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:29 pm

Well it does tell you that your tank height is spot on and that your engine is pretty efficient. For comparison My Fox .35 gets 4:30ish on 3.5oz. on the Clown. However my wide bypass '52 Fox gets 6:20 on 4oz.

I think you have it just about dialed in to be honest. More time with that engine will make the difference. Or you can put a Fox on it...J/J I bet that TT is a smooth runner. Your landings were flawless I have only done that a couple times.

Hope to see more video.

Ron

**RknRusty** Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:46 pm

Maybe Thursday morning I can get out early and fly again. Now that I know how to get the Rich-Lean break to run just right, I'm going to try something different and see if I like it. The Thunder Tiger is not originally meant to run with a break. So I'm going to bolt a 10x4 on it and see how it flies running a clean 2 stroke, launching with a lean roll-off just like I launch a Cox or a Norvel. I might like it. I have an APC and a Top Flite wooden 10x4 to try. I bet the fuel will run a lot longer that the 5:13 I'm getting out of 3 ounces now. If I don't like it, I'll go back to the way I have it working now. If the engine is happy, I bet I can enter those V8s with more punch and not have bad air causing me to abort like I was doing the other day. The 10x4 is also the setup that Mark was recommending I run when he sold me the engine. I might make my first run short just to make sure she stays tight. If it does, I'll filler up and be off to the races.

I'll post a separate report for this next expedition.

Rusty

**Cribbs74** Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:03 pm

You may like a clean 2 stroke run Rusty as it's so similar to a Cox run. Just not in speed though! Are you still running standard vent? Or did the new tank solve the uni-flow issue?

Ron

**RknRusty** Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:55 pm

Since I spend so much energy getting set up and stooge flying, I only went with what I knew would work the first time. So no, I went standard vent. I did test run the uniflow on the ground and there were no bubbles at all, so I think that problem is solved. If tomorrow is dry and the weeds aren't too high, I'll try flying with it. I'm not too sure what to expect though. If I'm running with the rich-lean break, I hope it still tells me when it's low on fuel... not that I paid attention to it during the V8s on Sunday. Rolling Eyes

I'm looking forward to trying that 10" prop and a regular run.

Sorry about the Ringmaster. I hope to keep the SS in one piece for a while longer. No backup yet. I just came in from working on the Yak.
Rusty

**Cribbs74** Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:11 pm

I'll be watching for the report, it's nice two have a couple fliers should one bite the dust. On the other hand it's a little tough to launch one right after you plow one in. It's much easier to shake off a 1/2A crackup.

I am interested in the uni-flow setup as well as muffler pressure. Much like you I have more nose weight than I want and don't want to add the muffler. I am toying with the idea of a tongue muffler though.

Mark Boesen Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:12 pm

Remember, it's still a 2-4-2 just not as pronounced. I almost want to tell Rusty not to bother, I think his plane is dialed in pretty well...but that would be silly as we're all tinkers and strive for perfection...kinda like flying the pattern.

Rusty,
I think you (and Ron too) have reached that point where you guys can fly stunt very well and might want to start working on the (beginner) pattern.
(A) It will give you a goal to fly the pattern as well as possible and (B) it will eliminate random maneuvers that may get you in trouble (see Rusty's last flight) tucking in, instead of pulling out, running out of fuel at wrong time, etc., etc. I say this from first hand advice, I've had too many crashes this way.

Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again? Beginn10

**Cribbs74** Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:39 pm

Mark,

I know this is Rusty's thread, but I am going to ask anyway just in case he is thinking the same thing. Is there an OTS beginner pattern? I wish to compete here soon and I am wondering where best to start. I can find the OTS pattern, but no beginner.

Thanks for posting that, it's very clear and easy to see what's going on. I believe I can accomplish all of those stunts very soon. I think Rusty is already there. In the fall the Gluedobbers in Tulsa will be hosting a competition and I would love to compete in it.

Ron

Mark Boesen Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:50 pm

http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=35

It's been a long time since i flew competitively (rising all the way up to a mediocre advance level flyer, lol) and as far as i know the only pattern for novice or beginner is this...I've don't think they have 'old time' or 'vintage' stunt flown using PAMPA classes...also you two might want to join PAMPA, you'll learn a lot.

I think you and Rusty both would do very well!

**RknRusty** Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:45 am

The voice of reason strikes again. I've been trying to jump straight into advanced stunts without being even close to that skill set. I was about to scoff when Ron said he thought I could already do all of the beginner pattern, but when I looked at it, I was surprised to see it's true. I have done everything in that pattern with the SS, except overhead 8's, but I've done that with the Baby Streak a few times. Instead of risking my beloved plane, I think I'll step back and work up to it. Thanks for speaking up, Mark. As far as the engine tuning goes... yeah, if it's in my head, I've gotta try it. but that's just a big part of the fun for me.

I think 1/2A has given me an artificially elevated sense of ability, because they are so maneuverable. I can yank the handle and bail out of anything. Only the speed prevents me from trying some of it, like square cornered maneuvers. I might try slowing the Streak down and practicing the new tricks on that. V8s came easily on my first try, with that plane. I'm sure the 1/2A pattern guys don't do the pattern at 65mph either. Jim Thomerson is the most accomplished 1/2A pattern flier I know of, and he uses the little ones to tune up with before flying the pattern with the big planes.

This Shoestring was a stroke of luck for me. I don't have anything to compare it with, but it seems like a perfect beginner pattern trainer. It's very cooperative when I'm using the slightest bit of sense, which seems to be hard for me to do. I probably wore my Mom's nerves to a frazzle when I was learning to drive a car. I wanted to be a race car driver. lol!

**RknRusty** Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:07 pm

Got out early today. It was dead calm at the house, but as usual, blustery at the Fort, but I ain't afraid of no stinking wind! Actually the windsock was pretty still. I don't know if it's placed too close to the trees or if it takes a gale to swing it, but an RC guy that I know came out and tried a couple of flights with his huge F-3 WW-II fighter plane and could barely drive it without looking like a roller coaster, and gave up, leaving me with the field to myself.

The first thing I tried was the MA 9x5 woody. Well, the Thunder Tiger didn't like it a bit. It wouldn't even 4-stroke it higher that 9k rpm. So I launched with a 2-stroke at my usual 11.6k and the TT ran away lean in the air. I did a few loops and such, nothing new. Then I tried the 10x4 woody, and set it like I would tune a Cox, just on the rich side of peak. It flew okay, but wanted to die in the loops, and I ended up making the most beautiful landing I ever made... inverted, but soft. I wish the video showed it better. Nary a scratch on the SS. So back to the regular black MA 9x5. I seem to always go back to it. I guess that's the one.

I tried to fly the beginner pattern with spotty success... very spotty. I finally realized I'd been having a brain hiccup and doing wingovers from the wrong side. I usually do one dumb thing every time, so that was it today. I did a couple from the correct side. So I started the pattern and did my wingover badly, then the three off track inside loops, the three outside loops, then several attempts at a square loop, but none of them look very square. But I actually did a passable legal figure 8. I gave up the pattern after that without any overheads, did a couple more wingovers and landed... upwind of course, so it was bumpy, no score on that.

I packed out after that, since my breakfast had worn off and I had to go buy lawnmower parts. But at least I flew. Again, I took the Baby Streak for the Cox contest, but never cranked it. I'll patch a video together later on.

**Cribbs74** Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:18 pm

Sounds successful! That's good, I bet next time out you will knock out the overhead stuff. Waiting on the video Popcorn

Mark Boesen Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:39 pm

Hi Rusty,

Don't know if you noticed this: http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=35

Did u tach your launch RPM? Sounds like it went lean on the loops? What was your lap times? I don't think it's gonna fly any better, but might be easier to dial in once you get it set.

There's a lot to practice on the beginner pattern, should keep you busy for rest of summer, mainly bottoms of maneuver and consistency.

**RknRusty** Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:05 pm

Some days are good, some days are bad. Today... I was awful. I don't know why, but I know we all have those days, so I can't deny it. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHh-n_LvhfQ&feature=youtu.be

**RknRusty** Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:08 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:Hi Rusty,

Don't know if you noticed this: http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=35

Did u tach your launch RPM? Sounds like it went lean on the loops? What was your lap times? I don't think it's gonna fly any better, but might be easier to dial in once you get it set.

There's a lot to practice on the beginner pattern, should keep you busy for rest of summer, mainly bottoms of maneuver and consistency.

Yes, Mark, I took that to the field with me today. I tach every launch. The MA 9x5 prop at 11.6k gives me the best run every time. I'm still running more lean on the outsides. I think it's only a matter of tank position though. I'm working on it.
Rusty

pkrankow Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:07 pm

You are over 5 minutes so there should be plenty of time for a pattern to be completed. There is a time limit of 8 minutes. (I skimmed the aerobatic rules and probably missed something)

If flying pattern takes LESS than the time of a full tank you may want to measure the fuel into the tank to reduce your flight time so you are not doing a lot of laps at the end.

Phil

**Cribbs74** Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:25 pm

Man Rusty,

It's been said that we are our own worst critic. Don't be so hard on yourself man! your video narratives cracked me up. I have not quite figured out the inside squares myself however I have been doing some poor outside squares. They kind of look like trapezoids lol!

Check out my vids and see if you can pick it out. I think it's just relearning muscle memory again is all. If this is the first time you have tried it then I wouldn't expect to get it the first time. I liked your inverted landing!

Ron

Sponsored content

Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Re: Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?