Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions

Sig Skyray Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:34 pm

Hey guys.

I want to know how stunt-worthy a Sig Skyray 24" is. I'm buying two kits for my .049's for me and my son to get (back) into control line flying.

I learned on a Lil' Wizard in the early 70's and it was a bit of a slug. I'm reading up on it now and I hear it's nose heavy, small winged and heavy, and that's fine as I'm buying for my son to build and learn with. I'm having him build it for nostalgia's sake as it was my first build-and-fly too. I hear you can coax a loop out of it with the right fuel and prop and I was looking for input on that topic. Not that my boy will be doing the loops, I intend to return to the Wizard to fly for fun after some practice with the Skyray.

I want to build the Skyray as something I can learn to stunt on and can have my son graduate into from the Wizard. So, once I practice up, how stunt-worthy is the small Skyray? *Note, it's not a Skyray 35, it's got the 24" wingspan.

About control line length... I flew the Wizard with 52' lines because that's what the directions dictated and I hear it's the only 1/2a you can fly with those long lines. I thought this time around I'd get some .008 52' wire lines to cut the drag. Comments?
What lines would be suggested for the Skyray for a novice flyer like myself and a newbie like my son?

Thanks all. Glad to have found this forum!

**RknRusty** Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:57 pm

Hi Ray
Before I realized you were planing to build a 24" Skyray, I went and got the URL to my Skyray build thread from last Summer. But it's a Skyray 35 with a fortysomething wingspan. Here it is since I've got it handy. Maybe it will be of some help. It gets a bit tedious, as my builds tend to do, but just scroll and look for pictures, every part of the plane is in there.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6627-skyray-35-build-faux-streak-look
Rusty

EDIT: I'd fly it on 40' or 42' lines. That'll keep a gust of wind from taking it away from you. I fly my fastest planes on 42', maybe 45' for a Norvel powered hot rod on a dead calm day.

getback Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:57 am

WELLCOME TO THE FORUM SIG SKYRAY !! Glad to hear you and your son are getting into the seen again // I would not go with steel lines for 1/2a I think most of us here are using spider fishing line .008 (12#) should be good get the good stuff made Dyneema is the name your looking for and try and find something other than Green/ White or Yellow works good . As Rusty said cut line length back to 40-42 to get warmed up on , most my 1/2a s are on 35'. Keep us updated on your builds / fly's . Eric

Sig Skyray Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:59 am

Hey Rusty, great detail on the Skyray build! I'm envious of your workspace too. Love to have a man-cave like that. Thanks for all that copious note-making and documentation.

Thanks Eric. The Dyneema would be the braided stuff, right? They have a lot of lines to choose from but it looks like this is the right one: Spiderwire Stealth Braid, Hi-Vis Yellow, .008 which is a 10# line. The 15# is .0085". (SCS10Y-125 or SCS15Y-125).

I mentioned this in another thread too but this is a good place... The Lil' Wizard flies on 52' lines because of the plane's weight and so the pilot has to turn less (for beginners) I'm guessing? Line length then becomes a pilot preference after some experience. You mention to cut the lines back to 40 - 42 to get warmed up, but most of your 1/2a's are on 35'. The shorter lines mean more control and thus maneuverability?

Long lines are appealing to me because of the longer lap times but I guess it cuts performance and speed because of line drag. Am I correct? Set me straight on line length please.

I appreciate the perspective guys!

Greg

pkrankow Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:14 am

I like power pro 20# I get it from ebay in yellow

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271175612048?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If you fly bigger the 65# is suitable for sport flying up to size .40 engines. Consult
http://www.modelaircraft.org/
under rules and regulations, CL general if you need more information.

Line reels and discussion here. A number of people are members at both sites.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,38468.0.html
although there is nothing wrong with wrapping the non-steel lines around the handle neatly.

Phil

Sig Skyray Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:32 am

So Rusty, you mention flying on 40', 42' or 45' lines. Are you storing the extra line on the handle and making adjustments according to your desires for that flight, or are these separate sets of lines/handles you keep? Just figuring out the basics and do appreciate your help!

Greg

Sig Skyray Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:49 am

Thanks Phil. Good info at your links Smile

Greg

getback Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:05 am

Yes Greg the braided sorry I didn't put that in am not a big fisher man , with good quick connects on the handle leads with swivels , I have some planes with there own lines but can be removed and hooked to others then make adjustments at the handle to suit the plane for neutral position . And yes the line length and size will make a lot of difference as far as drag and quickness , I meant to use long lines to start with and then cut your self back if you feel needed as you get back into the swing of things and depending on how fast U want to go round Very Happy

not to wrap the long lines around the handle to shorten them. What engines are you going to bee using ? Eric Popcorn

TDbandit Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:12 am

Hi Sig welcome to the forum!!
I have two 1/2A Skyrays and they are great fliers and are capable of stunts however since you are planning on using it as a stunt trainer I would make sure that you put some sort of pushrod support on the model. The pushrod that comes with the kit is somewhat wimpy and flexes a lot under stress and under heavy stress effects elevator control especially if you put something bigger than a babe bee on it this support will improve control response. Another thing I would do is beef up the way the bell crank is mounted, they way they have you do it in the kit is install it with a simple self tapping screw which works fine for basic stuff but once it starts experiencing heavier loads it can work loose so I would glue a small ply disk on the bottom of the wing made from scrap in the kit and drill the hole for the bell crank all the way through and put a 2-56 machine screw up from the bottom and secure the bell crank with a nut and a dot of glue on the threads to secure the nut this will about bullet proof the bell crank. As far as lines go, the little Ray is light so I wouldn't fly er on more than 42' lines. I fly mine on 35'. Longer than 42' would make it increasingly susceptible to wind and could blow it in on ya. Hope this helps (Bandit)

Kim Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:02 am

Yeah...Bandit's suggestions are a good idea across the board for all these little planes...not a lot of work, and can only make things better.

35' is about my all-around favorite, unless you got hold of one of Rusty's more raucous planes!

Plus, my front yard circle will only let me go out to 35' before I got to start dodging fence posts and wires....

**RknRusty** Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:12 am

Sig Skyray wrote:So Rusty, you mention flying on 40', 42' or 45' lines. Are you storing the extra line on the handle and making adjustments according to your desires for that flight, or are these separate sets of lines/handles you keep? Just figuring out the basics and do appreciate your help!

Greg

Oh, now I don't have to call you Ray anymore lol.
Hi Greg, I have several handles with different lengths, and they're all adjustable so I can use them on any plane. I mostly use Spiderwire brand braided, or... another, I can't recall at the moment. I have one 42' set of 7-strand steel .008" wire that I store on a spool and have an adjustable cable handle dedicated to it.

Here is my Li'l Satan with a Tee Dee .049 on 42' steel flown by CEF's own Ron Cribbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdpTRjIvApE

It had a coughing problem that turned out to be a clogged needle valve, but you get the idea.
Rusty

roddie Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:57 am

Hi Greg, Sig advertises the Skyray with a Cox Golden Bee engine. It has the larger 8cc stunt-vented integral tank. Earlier Golden Bees had a smaller air-intake (same as the Babe Bee) and possibly different cylinder porting than the later versions; which were similar to the more powerful "Black-Widow" engine. If you started training with the former.. you could then swap to the latter; adding more power once you get used to the way it fly's, without altering the models balance in any way. Your fuel-economy will decrease with the more powerful engine though.. so it will run out of fuel sooner.

Sig recommends 30 foot maximum line-length.. which I feel is kinda "short"... they also recommend a 6"D x 3"P prop.

Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions Yy1sig10

Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions Yy1sig10

Sig Skyray Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:31 pm

Wow. Fantastic info and support. I really appreciate it!

Eric, I'll be initially using an .049 Babe Bee. Can look into more power once I get my sea legs. Thanks for the additional info on the correct line.

Great video of Ron flying your Lil' Satan Rusty! My son loved it and now knows what's possible.

All my props are 3-blade and 5". Should I order a 2-bladed 5, 5.5 or 6" to use as well?

Thanks Kim and Bandit. Great advice on the modifications and line length.

**RknRusty** Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:23 pm

You can order 5" and 6" from Bernie and Matt(coxinternational and exmodelengines). Start with the 6, it holds the engine RPMs down more than the shorter prop but gives good thrust and manageable speed. I like 5.5" props, but you'll have to cut down a 6" prop to get it. All I use are 3" pitch in every length for fun flying.

Once you earn your wings, I recommend switching to the stiffer Master Airscrew props. They are somewhat easier to cut down and balance, and will let the engine run faster than the rubbery Cox props. The Cox props are maddening to balance any other way than just hanging horizontal. Some of any brand will just refuse to balance, and I chuck them in the drawer for emergency supplies. Don't worry too much about balance with the Cox props. The MAs are also easier to break. You'll see us refer to the flexible black Cox props as Rubber Duckys.
Rusty

pkrankow Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:33 pm

I run Cox rubber ducky on a Man-win coroplast wing. It has been BURIED to the LE in soft dirt and snow in crashes. The prop manages to survive!

I use this plane as a trainer, anybody who wants a go can have it. I don't let people fly my wooden trainers till they can run the tank out several times on the man-win's baby bee.

Phil

plans are here
http://balsabeavers.com/information/information.php

OH! that is where the coroplast PT19 is!

Sig Skyray Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:47 am

Thank you!

**RknRusty** Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:25 am

I took pictures of some of my 1/2A gear the other day and forgot to post it.
That's a quart bag of ready to use props in the top left, on top of the box marked "1/2A". You'll be wading ankle deep in props of all sizes and applications pretty soon.
Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions WP_20150403_004_zpsiqw6hkmt

Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions WP_20150403_004_zpsiqw6hkmt

Here are other handles. The second and third from the top areold Cox handles I use for 35' lines
Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions WP_20150403_007_zpsqzkmxhxs

Lil' Wizard and Sig Skyray 24 Questions WP_20150403_007_zpsqzkmxhxs

RknRusty wrote:
Sig Skyray wrote:So Rusty, you mention flying on 40', 42' or 45' lines. Are you storing the extra line on the handle and making adjustments according to your desires for that flight, or are these separate sets of lines/handles you keep? Just figuring out the basics and do appreciate your help!

Greg
Oh, now I don't have to call you Ray anymore lol.
Hi Greg, I have several handles with different lengths, and they're all adjustable so I can use them on any plane. I mostly use Spiderwire brand braided, or... another, I can't recall at the moment. I have one 42' set of 7-strand steel .008" wire that I store on a spool and have an adjustable cable handle dedicated to it.

Here is my Li'l Satan with a Tee Dee .049 on 42' steel flown by CEF's own Ron Cribbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdpTRjIvApE

It had a coughing problem that turned out to be a clogged needle valve, but you get the idea.
Rusty

Sig Skyray Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:24 am

Thanks Rusty! Very Happy

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