Dawgies! Lookee this re: Estes!

ATi984:

AT1984 wrote:From Wikipedia:

"Tower Hobbies is a division of Hobbico, Inc, which is headquartered Champaign, Illinois, United States. [1]"

Hmm...

You just repeted what I wrote. With the ongoing discussion of Estes/Cox I'm curious about your response.

Have no further comment?

SuperDave

SuperDave,

I was thinking (but didn't make clear in my post) that Hobbico is buying up a lot of hobby related companies. They acquired Revell models a while back, and that hasn't necessarily meant bad news for model builders. I haven't seen a lot of negative feedback from my friends that build drag race models. Quite the opposite, actually.

I haven't been involved with model aircraft very long, but I think that the general opinion is that Estes messed up the Cox brand with poor quality control, etc...

Your post states: "Explains a lot. The consolidation of soures means a reduction in competition which means reduced selection of products with lesser attention to quality."

Didn't that already happen WAY before January 2010 with Estes? I'm confused, so I'll leave it at that, for now.

I'm greatful for the products that Matt and Bernie get for us.

Allen

Matt and Bernie do us an excellent service and make it easy to continue the hobby until the day we die.

Allen:

Competition yeilds many advantages for the consumer: technological innovation, price competition, selection etc.

But, inciduously, the end game of competion is to eliminate competition oft resulting in the creation of a monopoply which can reverse the abouve advantages. There is no better example than the automobile manufacturing industry. Witness the history of the Ford Motor Company.

How has it stayed afloat for so long in such a competitive industry? (And with without taking recent "bailout" money from the Obama Administration.)


The answer is not at all complicated. What is it?

SuperDave

SuperDave,

"How has it stayed afloat for so long in such a competitive industry? (And with without taking recent "bailout" money from the Obama Administration. The answer is not at all complicated. What is it?"


I could be wrong about Ford, but my answer would be "Quality Products" (?). I see what you mean, now. (I think!) LOL.

Allen

Allen:

I attribute the Ford Motor Company success to, not only quality product but the mangement skill of CEO Bill Malaly, former CEO of the Boeing Airplane Company.

Ford has also built s faithful follwing for the Mustang ('65-present) and F-series pickup '48-present). Both are handsdown favoites and top-selers in their respective catgories. Futher Ford has deeply penerated the fleet vehicle market.

The above are the "bread and butter" vehicles of FMC.

Where Ford has survived unasisted, GM and Chrysler went for "bailout money" from the Obama admistration where Ford refused to apply. Malaly's skill with the above products and his ability to worek with the UAW have been crucial.

SuperDave

I remember the early years of Tower and because we lived overseas I bought a gazillion bucks worth from them

Now that almost all Local hobby shops have dissappeard or shifted away from CL balsa n dope for electric Plug n crash instant gratification stuff I am partly to blame.

Once back in the states I went to the LHS and my cheap butt could not buy the more expensive item because Tower hooked me with same item cheaper, and usually free shipping. All I had to do was thumb through a catalog with excelent information and specs, see what I could not live without, sip my beer, call a 800 number and wait a week

Now I have no choice as LHS is 90% HO trains ( I am Lionel 027 gauge guy) and micro Bind n crash foam prebuilts

They do have a fair selection of RC Glow or electick ground cars...but no engines,,,, just wall after wall of bling and upgrade small parts

I experimented with Hobby King but I hate the idea that by using them I might help Tower die faster (their selection shifts away from my interests with each passing year)

Competiton is good as long as the playing field is level.

I do know a few LHS accross the country surviving because they got smart and have real good web sites and competitive prices

But I do lament the loss of three or four LHS competing for my loyalty and even activly competing with the products and sponsoring races, fly ins etc....

Not sure who of us decided kids should play electroninc games but we ALL raised a couple of generations now that have zero interest in hard hobbies where you learn things that apply later life in a big way.

Damn you McDonalds (but i still love a Big Mac) I miss A&W!

Having been somewhat comatose to what happend in our hobby for the last 40 years or more, I just found something on evil bay indicating that Estes purchased Sterling too.... Wonder if we'll see those kits again. I'm Jonesing for a Ringmaster S-1.

SuperDave wrote:Allen:

I attribute the Ford Motor Company success to, not only quality product but the mangement skill of CEO Bill Malaly, former CEO of the Boeing Airplane Company.

Ford has also built s faithful follwing for the Mustang ('65-present) and F-series pickup '48-present). Both are handsdown favoites and top-selers in their respective catgories. Futher Ford has deeply penerated the fleet vehicle market.

The above are the "bread and butter" vehicles of FMC.

Where Ford has survived unasisted, GM and Chrysler went for "bailout money" from the Obama admistration where Ford refused to apply. Malaly's skill with the above products and his ability to worek with the UAW have been crucial.

SuperDave

Same with me man when I got ion diesels it took me ages to find a shop that stocked it as with 1/2a fuel I used to modify rc car fuel for that.
I too was and is a fan if bnf micros as they are cheap and what I think males them popular is that they are easy.
I think to bring cox engines back we need to make a glow powered parkzone mustang and put it on YouTube get about 1 million hits and explain that cox engines exist and tiny fuel powered parkflyers are possible and easy.

Superdave: I figured I had at least part of it right. I still wouldn't mind having a "vintage" Chrysler...A GTX, Super Bee, 'Cuda or Challenger. Can't go wrong, there. Although I've always been a Ford fan, since my Dad bought a '64 Galaxie 500 427. I used to sit on the "hump", and shift gears, when I was 4 or 5!

Fredvon4: I used Tower quite a bit, when I was stationed in Germany. That was during my R/C car/buggy days...back in 2002/2003.

Allen

Great reponses guys! Many nostalgic responses of times past.

But this is a "new age" of much differing priorities especially for the young. Up against that influence, the hobby industries are hard pressed to compete. The LHS is under intense competition from I'net large scale marketers such as Tower and the like.

I've used Tower extensively since returning to model aviation because I generally am "In the know" of what's available and am well-versed in the "jargon" of the hobby. But. lo the poor "newb" encountering the vast choices to be made. Here is the crux of the problem for producers of the items that we need.

To those who might "whine" about hobby costs, the price of gasoline was once far less than a buck a gallon too. Although I enjoy Tower's pricing and EXCELLENT web-site I realaize the predicament of the LHS where service is such an important element to the consumer. The "demand" for gasoline is relatively inelastic, hobbies are not.

The economic equation has not changed but the priorities certainly have.

(I hope this makes sense to most)

"Prof" SuperDave

Makes perfect sense to me

I just re started my glow fuel powerd hobbies in the last 10 weeks (preparing to retire for second time )

Of course Hobby Lobby is huge with zero in there except the exacto knife set and some plastic models

The LHS I bought a lot from 3 decades ago caters to E-park fly and rc cars.

Counter guy had no clue what dope was or where the balsa kits were hidden.

They still have the exact same sliding wall of DuBro, Sig, and TopFlight parts like end links, control horns etc etc all in little $2.99 packs and a few roles of MonoKote. They even still had a covering iron I bet the date of manufacture was in the 80s by the discoloration of the package

I dropped $200 in there and bought one or two of everything I think I might need for the next few years and left nearly in tears because I know I will never be back. Hope the parkfliers keep him in business but by the number and prices I doubt the owner can keep the door open too much longer

We have a lot of this same discussion on my Ham radio site QRZ.com and on the shooting and reloading forums

How do we old farts (who did this to our children) (I believe it gents-- look in the damned mirror if you need to see who screwed up the last few generations)...any way how do we compete with Xbox, pay per view, IPod/Pad, world of War craft, Halo, and RealFlight.

My dad was a super busy guy but still taugght me to build models, hunt, fish, camp, repair the lawn mower, rebuild the family transmission or motor....

Wife and I raised three and I never did find the time to do much with the kids because....enter any fraking excuse here...does not matter... it is a poor excuse and the max range of any excuse is zero meters

I hope I am not too late with my Son (he is interested in the RC but not Ham Radio) and I fully intend to help form many of grand son Jacksons "best day ever" experiances

Well luckily there is no shortage of models and engines and parts at the on-line stores. I miss walking into the hobby shop and peering through the glass counter too. You may hear people refer to another Hobby Lobby, but it isn't the lame store you speak of. We have those here too. Mostly a giant craft store for idle rich women. They do have some balsa and plywood, woodworking tools, etc.

But to the onlookers every new generation seems to be corrupt who remembers when they would not show Elvis shaking his hips on TV?
(i am not quite that old, YET lol but i still know about that)
Every generation has been somewhat disapointed with the one that oes after it is just natural for adults to go into the whole "kids today" thing because modern kids are not what we used to be.
but it has always been like that and always will be.
And it is too easy to fall into that health and safety crowd today and not let the kids be adventurous.
seriously would we let our kids do what we did?
honestly.

My LHS still sells some dope actually. My uncle just got some red and white TINY little jars - Testors paint size. But the selection was small and I doubt it will stay long. They have modern car engines, irons, MonoKote, assorted balsa/ply, some DuBro stuff. Then all the other stuff.

SuperDave wrote:" In January 2010, the Estes-Cox Corporation was purchased by Hobbico, a 100% Employee-Owned Corporation based in Champaign, Illinois" - from the Estes web-page

Explains a lot. The consolidation of soures means a reduction in competition which means reduced selection of products with lesser attention to quality.

Basic Econ 101 friends.

SuperDave

They're making those little parkfliers now. - http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/cox/index.html

It's all of it.

microflitedude wrote:

SuperDave wrote:" In January 2010, the Estes-Cox Corporation was purchased by Hobbico, a 100% Employee-Owned Corporation based in Champaign, Illinois" - from the Estes web-page

Explains a lot. The consolidation of soures means a reduction in competition which means reduced selection of products with lesser attention to quality.

Basic Econ 101 friends.

SuperDave

They're making those little parkfliers now. - http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/cox/index.html

It's all of it.

While your looking at those new planes from cox, why don't you tell your story about your interest in cox engines here> http://www.coxmodels.com/history/flashback.html

I like th site but was rather disappointed win their planes they are exact copies of the nine eagles planes just in other colours even have the same transmitter.