bye, bye BUTYRATE!

Mark Boesen wrote:Hi SD

Remember the 'modern area' of finishes started with Monokote back in the late sixties!

Mark

Yes, that was about the time I got out of of modeling to raise our children and go to grad school. And my interest lay dormant until I retired, for the final time, in '03.

Playing "catch up" has been, shall we say, "challenging" and for that reason I so appreciate CECF which has helped me emerge from the "darkness"; great group of fellows drawn together by the fascination with Cox engines.

I'm right "at home" here.

There are alternatives to butyrate dope such as automotive finishes, etc. Some will use paint finishes not matter what. I am probably in that category...BUT, I have not ruled out iron-on coverings.

Iron-ons have come a long way since the introduction of Monokote. There are various weights, strengths, and purposes. Perhaps it is time for those who use iron-ons to enlighten us uninformed...perhaps with a thread dedicated solely to that purpose.

I have never used iron-ons. :-(

George

gcb wrote:

I have never used iron-ons. :-(

George

Nor have but I'm about too.

Yes, a CECF tutorial would be very helpful and save from learning (and failing) by ourselves.

SuperDave wrote:

gcb wrote:

I have never used iron-ons. :-(

George

Nor have but I'm about too.

Yes, a CECF tutorial would be very helpful and save from learning (and failing) by ourselves.

I prefer solar film to monokote. Better eight and stretches rather than rips.
I used solar film,so-lite ultra micro covering for a couple of .010 and electric models.
I still prefer tissue and dope but for sharp and clean looking models film is best but I would never consider covering a ww1 plane in a film it is just wrong IMO.

I just picked up 3 rolls of the Hangar 9 Ultracoat "parkflier" version of there iron-on. Going to be using it on my Funaero Superjake kit. I'll put something up on this thread or start a new thread once it starts going on.

The Ultracoat stuff is easy to work with, but I always practice on a few pieces before commiting to large structures. If you follow the instructions that are packaged with each roll, you will have a well covered plane.

A iron thermometer is very handy for checking the temp of the iron face before starting and during the covering operation. You can set the iron to just tack glue the covering on, then once you feel satisfied that it is the way you want it, then you turn up the temp on the iron to acctually shrink the covering.

This iron right here works the best for me. I returned or gave away 3 different irons due to wild temp variations from tip to tail. Consistent heat front to back and it recovers quite well.
http://www.coverite.com/accys/covr2550.html

I use there pocket thermometer also.
http://www.coverite.com/accys/covr2410.html

PV:
Looks like it would work for me too.. I'll have "pony up" and get one also. I have considered getting Badger paint sprayer set-up for models but the expense and complications of using it have disuaded me from doing so.

Mixing paint never appealed to me anyway.

Thanks for the site.

If you want to practice covering with plastics, cover combat planes or cover your models with lighter colors applied, try laminating film.

It comes on the roll looking frosted, but becomes completely clear after heating and shrinking. You can purchase it with a glossy finish or matte finish. I don't have any experience with the matte finish, but I would expect if you wanted to spray it after applying, matte might hold the paint better. It can be sprayed on the adhesive side, but only lightly. Too much, and the paint interferes with the adhesive.

The big question, why laminating film? It's very tough, lightweight (1.5 mil thickness) and holds its tension for a long time. The part that appeals to me is: CHEAP!!! Most of the commercial plastics run $13 to $15 for a 26" x 6' roll. Oregon Laminations sells a 25" x 250' roll of glossy film for $15.20. The downside is that it has to be painted. Several guys in the other groups have had good luck using floral rattlecan paint on the adhesive side, but applying it lightly.

It is not as "stretchy" as monokote and the initial tack down needs to have the covering snug if possible. However, if you mess up, it's so inexpensive that it can be removed and tossed.

SuperDave wrote:PV:
Looks like it would work for me too.. I'll have "pony up" and get one also. I have considered getting Badger paint sprayer set-up for models but the expense and complications of using it have disuaded me from doing so.

Mixing paint never appealed to me anyway.

Thanks for the site.

The Badgers work well, I have one of there complete Pro kits that I bought a LONG time ago. I set it up to use right off of my direct drive compressor,added a line dryer and micro pressure regulator. The thing with those is, they don't hold very much paint and you are constantly running out and adding more to your color cup or jar. A better setup is a vehicle paint house style of touch gun that holds several ounces, that way you have the quantity to do a full coat coverage on what you are painting in one shot. And now you are into the big bucks with that, because you have to have on hand the quantity of butrate, reducer, thinner, ect. It can be a vicious circle. Not to be a donny doomsayer with the spray guns because alot of folks are into those and some of those finishes turn out beautiful, but the paint cost versus iron-on cover increases expotentially (or can). The iron-on's are quick and clean.

Never tried any of the laminates Andrew, and it's a good idea all around. Might have to do that one of these days.

I never built a model with covered wings before my Li'l Jumpin Bean this Spring. I followed a tutorial and did a near perfect job the first time without even a practice run. My recent Li'l Satan wing turned out even better. I'll post some tips when I have time, but here is that Tutorial link:
http://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/heat-shrink-covering.html

I used a fry thermometer the first time. I made 2 marks on my dial with a sharpie, one for melting the glue and one for maximum shrinking, and that's all I need to use it. I used a heat gun the first time to do the overall shrinking, but last time I only used the iron. The Satan did have a less curvy wing, so that helped.
Repairs are almost invisible and take only a minute.

RknRusty wrote:I never built a model with covered wings before my Li'l Jumpin Bean this Spring. I followed a tutorial and did a near perfect job the first time without even a practice run. My recent Li'l Satan wing turned out even better. I'll post some tips when I have time, but here is that Tutorial link:
http://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/heat-shrink-covering.html

I used a fry thermometer the first time. I made 2 marks on my dial with a sharpie, one for melting the glue and one for maximum shrinking, and that's all I need to use it. I used a heat gun the first time to do the overall shrinking, but last time I only used the iron. The Satan did have a less curvy wing, so that helped.
Repairs are almost invisible and take only a minute.

i just use my clothes iron it is a really high quality german one and it does the job perfectly.
Maybe i'll make my rubber powered ff model film covered and post some pics.

Andrew what brand? Any link or typical place to purchase? I am still primarily silk\tissue n dope guy but do have roll or two of monokote to learn with.

I use automotive detail gravity feed small air gun from Harbor freight.... Works well and very inexpensive. Drive it with small pancake compressor from pawn shop. All in cost under $100

fredvon4 --

This link will take you to the film section -- there are other sizes and different core diameters also on the site. Scroll down when you get there and look for the 25"x250' 1.5 mil roll.

http://www.oregonlam.com/Laminating_Roll_Film_Lamination_Laminate_laminator_hot_cold_1_core.html

They have a flat rate shipping should you decide on multiple rolls. This is one of the few sites I've found that will sell single rolls. Since most roll laminators apply film to the top and bottom of a document, companies want to sell pairs of rolls as a minimum.

I still think that silk and dope produces the most beautiful finish, but R/C silk has gotten far too expensive. Several of the silk import houses still have reasonably priced silk in 5mm. Tissue is nice, but I've only used it on stick and tissue rubber models.

I use Sig manufacturing heavy n light Japan silk and their dop. I also intend to use their Koverall covering soon

Thanks for the link.....frugal me very interested in this method for planes i will certainly auger into the ground as I relearn how to fly

I still like silkspan it shapes nice and easy and you can feather the edges seamless which to me on small models is important if I'm trying for a nice finish but you are right...dope is really expensive now.

Sig Coverall I have used on my 1/6th scale Sig Citabria. It has a very open nylon type weave, very coarse and heavy. If your planning on using it for 1/2A ships you'll be disappointed I feel. It's one of the heaviest thickest coverings so unless your familiar with it I would reconsider that...lol. It's nice stuff though for larger planes like the one I covered. Very scale looking in 40 size and up planes.

Where I buy my silk, when I do silk a model. They have the 5mm Habotai for $3.50 a yd
http://www.dharmatrading.com/

PV:

Schemer that I am I did a deal with my LHS to give me personal instruction instruction in synthetic coverings in exchange for some the modeling stuff that I have received from some of my friends who have gotten out of modeling or from their estates i.e. Hobbico Deluxe flight box (I have two), Hobbico lazer incidence meter etc.

When I accepted these from my friends it was with the understanding that
I either use them or pass them on. Since no $$$ is involved my conscience is clear.

PV Pilot wrote:Where I buy my silk, when I do silk a model. They have the 5mm Habotai for $3.50 a yd
http://www.dharmatrading.com/

PV Pilot --

What kind of water shrinkage are you getting on their silks?

Two other sources:
Thai Silks: http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2

Silk Connection: http://www.silkconnection.com/products/silk.php

andrew wrote:

PV Pilot wrote:Where I buy my silk, when I do silk a model. They have the 5mm Habotai for $3.50 a yd
http://www.dharmatrading.com/

PV Pilot --

What kind of water shrinkage are you getting on their silks?

Two other sources:
Thai Silks: http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2

Silk Connection: http://www.silkconnection.com/products/silk.php

I've never used water shrinkage on a nitro model Andrew, always thinned down butrate for shrinking and proofing. Or for a clean electric model, I use Minwax polycrylic. I built a foam brushless EDF flying wing last winter and used the 5mm and minwax stuff and it tightened up and pulled down nicely to the foam.

PV Pilot wrote:

andrew wrote:

PV Pilot wrote:Where I buy my silk, when I do silk a model. They have the 5mm Habotai for $3.50 a yd
http://www.dharmatrading.com/

PV Pilot --

What kind of water shrinkage are you getting on their silks?

Two other sources:
Thai Silks: http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1_2

Silk Connection: http://www.silkconnection.com/products/silk.php

I've never used water shrinkage on a nitro model Andrew, always thinned down butrate for shrinking and proofing. Or for a clean electric model, I use Minwax polycrylic. I built a foam brushless EDF flying wing last winter and used the 5mm and minwax stuff and it tightened up and pulled down nicely to the foam.

For electric and rubber powered models i now use easy dope.