Electric starter with a built on battery?

Tower Hobbies has this setup

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2423

crankbndr wrote:Tower Hobbies has this setup

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2423

You're about $80 into that by the time you purchase all of that.

My method will run about $20-$40+ for your starter (depending on model) and then you can get a $10 battery from china and thats it. Unless you need a charger, which you can get one for about $30 for a decent chinese unit. But most hobbyists nowadays have some sort of LIPO charger.
But if you want to do it the storebought way, thats fine.
Oh,and by the looks of it, that "PowerCore" is likely a NICD, NIHM, or lead acid battery. The LIPO batteries of today are much better than that as far as usable current output and capacity.
At the field where I fly RC, most of the glow pilots have a starter like the ones I pictured. I'd never even seen one of the ones linked in your post...

Not trying to start an argument here, but this truly is the one place left in this hobby where you can build it cheaper than you can buy it, with better performance to boot.

Rusty, I went through that for over a year. My shoulder pains migrate quickly down my arm if things don't go off as planned. 1/2A can pretty much break me if I'm not careful. I've almost decided to go the same route your deciding. Shawn however has been the starter lately. ken

I had Bursitis in shoulder lately, can't even put on a t shirt. One shot of steroids in there and your done, that didn't work so I'm SOL.

Waffleman wrote:

crankbndr wrote:Tower Hobbies has this setup

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2423

You're about $80 into that by the time you purchase all of that.

My method will run about $20-$40+ for your starter (depending on model) and then you can get a $10 battery from china and thats it. Unless you need a charger, which you can get one for about $30 for a decent chinese unit. But most hobbyists nowadays have some sort of LIPO charger.
But if you want to do it the storebought way, thats fine.
Oh,and by the looks of it, that "PowerCore" is likely a NICD, NIHM, or lead acid battery. The LIPO batteries of today are much better than that as far as usable current output and capacity.
At the field where I fly RC, most of the glow pilots have a starter like the ones I pictured. I'd never even seen one of the ones linked in your post...

Not trying to start an argument here, but this truly is the one place left in this hobby where you can build it cheaper than you can buy it, with better performance to boot.

When you add up your numbers your at 60-80$

Several years ago, while living in Fl, I sort of copied and built a simple but effective 1/2A starter that one of my old fellow club members had made using an old flashlight case, some rechargeable Sub C cells and a brushed high torque R/C car motor.
Although I built mine a little differently by using an old Kyosho car motor, some threaded PVC pipe, a small momentary push button switch from Radio Shack, and I modified an old Thunder Tiger Helicopter starter wand by cutting off the cone end and drilling it out to fit the motor shaft and I made the insert by filling the starter cone with high strength RTV adhesive. For power, I just ran 2 wires from the motor and switch to a 6 cell NiMh R/C car pack.
I already had the motor and battery pack so I spent maybe $10.00.

Shawn

crankbndr wrote:

When you add up your numbers your at 60-80$

Alright lets walk through this, say with a common hobbico starter, a decent 3s LIPO, and velcro straps to attach the battery.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL396&P=ML
This is $40.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXGL9&P=SM
This is $20.
I would imagine that most hobbyists have velcro straps in the workshop somewhere, so I wont factor in that cost.

So approximately $60 If using parts available from Tower or most decent hobby shops.

Using this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10481__Turnigy_Heavy_Duty_Starter_for_2_stroke_160_110_Size_Gas_Engines.html
and this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8932

That will run you about $30.
It's a lot cheaper, but these are not available from Tower or an LHS.


Either way will work great, its really just a personal preference. Or, If you want to use a Lead acid battery hooked up to your starter then I'm not gonna stop you.

Just my ... I'm sure that you could handle the wiring Rusty.. and using a lipo pack, along with the lightest weight starter you can find; that's capable of cranking your contest engine, would be easiest on your shoulder.. I would think. Even if the starter isn't a heavy-duty one.. it won't be for "all the time" use. It only needs to do the job on contest day.

I've got some nice 10ga. thin-strand "super flexible" wire if you need some.

Here's a photo of my truly redneck 1/2A starter. Much like Shawn's idea.. A brushed 540 can motor that had a gear on the output shaft, for the 3/8" rubber fuel tubing/starter-cone, a momentary switch from Radio Shack.. a bottle-cap for an "end-cap".. and a rolled aluminum flashing tube. I think I used 18ga. speaker wire. Hey.. it still works after 25+ years!

Great, my question generated some good responses, thanks guys. I'll be starting .25-.35 size engines, I should have mentioned that. I actually have some model car motors that would make a good 1/2A starter too. I like the home built ideas, and had thought of converting a flashlight for my small planes. For the bigger ones, Waffleman put up some good info. I don't have a LIPO charger but I guess I better look into that too. Thanks for all the links. I'll let y'all know whatever I cobble together.
Rusty

RknRusty wrote:Great, my question generated some good responses, thanks guys. I'll be starting .25-.35 size engines, I should have mentioned that. I actually have some model car motors that would make a good 1/2A starter too. I like the home built ideas, and had thought of converting a flashlight for my small planes. For the bigger ones, Waffleman put up some good info. I don't have a LIPO charger but I guess I better look into that too. Thanks for all the links. I'll let y'all know whatever I cobble together.
Rusty

Alright, if the only thing you are using a LIPO on is the starter then something like this cheap one should do it:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVZZ4&P=SM

Personally, I would recommend one like this one. Although it comes from china, it has a lot more functionality - and in my opinion is safer - than the one I linked from tower. Plus, you can charge, discharge, and cycle any kind of battery with this.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__55057__IMAX_B6_AC_Charger_Discharger_1_6_Cells.html

What about NiCd rather than Lipo, that's probably safe and simple too.

crankbndr wrote:I had Bursitis in shoulder lately, can't even put on a t shirt. One shot of steroids in there and your done, that didn't work so I'm SOL.

Ken Cook wrote:              Rusty, I went through that for over a year. My shoulder pains migrate quickly down my arm if things don't go off as planned. 1/2A can pretty much break me if I'm not careful. I've almost decided to go the same route your deciding. Shawn however has been the starter lately. ken

Ken and Crank and Rusty, the CEF creaky old guys. I bet my lifetime 1/2A flip/crank ratio is at best 50/1, and that's being very generous. My stunt engine ratio is probably 5/1, thank goodness.

I have a backup plan to the electric starter but haven't tried it yet. I've been using TF wood props which seem to fly my planes the best. I bought some APC props that I can back slap. I think I can get enough force into it with my chicken stick to crank it that way without hurting myself. I rotate the prop forward until it stops, then haul off and clobber it backwards. I'd never do that to a woody. When I get to a point that I think I'm ready to fly, I'll try it at home and see. I might have to go to Huntersville with no practice at all.
Rusty

RknRusty wrote:What about NiCd rather than Lipo, that's probably safe and simple too.

You might be able to get away with a NICD on something like a .35, I've never tried it or ever seen anybody try it. However, a NICD pack can't handle strong amp draw like even the low-end LIPO packs can. It might not be able to keep up with the amp draw from a standard starter.

And those suckers have a tendency to self-discharge. You DON'T want to show up at a competition and realize your starter battery is dead!

Waffleman wrote:

RknRusty wrote:What about NiCd rather than Lipo, that's probably safe and simple too.

You might be able to get away with a NICD on something like a .35, I've never tried it or ever seen anybody try it. However, a NICD pack can't handle strong amp draw like even the low-end LIPO packs can. It might not be able to keep up with the amp draw from a standard starter.

And those suckers have a tendency to self-discharge. You DON'T want to show up at a competition and realize your starter battery is dead!

The problem with using the LiPo for a starter is there is no voltage cutoff so using LiPo might be a bad idea.
NiCd packs are cheap enough now so using 2 packs in series would be more than enough to start up to a .60 with no problems.
And you can drain a NiCd and still be able to recharge it safely.


Shawn

sdjjadk wrote:
The problem with using the LiPo for a starter is there is no voltage cutoff so using LiPo might be a bad idea.
NiCd packs are cheap enough now so using 2 packs in series would be more than enough to start up to a .60 with no problems.


Shawn

It might work... Depends on how much compression you have.
With a LIPO, as long as you don't abuse it (EX "why won't this damn engine run, better start it again!") and don't go for a long time without charging it, you will never reach low voltage.
The guys I know (including me) go for a week or two between charges with no issues. If you charge after every flying day, you will never have any issue even after a busy day of flying.

Strap a 3s or 4s lipo to a battery starter and get true portable without external wires. well...velcro and short wires. I am using a mis-ordered 4000mAh 4s battery, about the size of a house brick in a protective box. I did not want to cut wires. I recommend a box or cover to protect the soft sided lipo from accident.

I wanted to use one of the extra brushless outrunners I have to make a 1/2a starter but could not figure an adapter (like that piece of hose pictured earlier). I figure some limiting resistors and a switch will make the esc function.

Phil

Hey Eric, yeah I ran across that thing last night.

Hey Rusty,

I don't really know the dynamics of flying at a contest, but you might think about a regular Sullivan starter with a baby field box that's packing one of those medium-sized sealed batteries.  I can charge mine over night and be ready for several days of flying, while also having some handy stuff like glowplug wrenches and other stuff at my fingertips.

Sullivan Kim

Have not hacked in a battery on the 1/2a one (yet) as I do not use it very much. Only on the bench for a stubborn engine then I work hard to make them one or two flip babies

The big one started as part of my RC field kit
$39 El Cheapo at Tower on a free shipping coupon and $10 off or some such thing for being a member

This is the battery holder
http://www.rchobbiesandmore.com/Century_Starter_Battery_Holder__CN2260-details.aspx


I got two 8.4VDC  NiMH 3000mAh RC car batteries locally for $10 each and wired them in series...Yes Virginia! I am stuffing around 16Vdc to the 12Vdc starter and at the very low duty cycle these things are used, there is no apparent problem now in year three of this setup. My RC club buddies are always borrowing it out on the flight line because I seem to be only one with a on board battery setup.
It starts their big gasoline engines just fine (most have the big starters wired to their field box back in the pit area)


I already had one of the decent Hobby King chargers that handles just about any chemistry out there

There's an Interstate Batteries store around the corner from me. I'm going to pay them a visit tomorrow and see what they have, and choose a starter online. I have a big fat Sullivan Dynatron 103, 12/24v starter given to me yesterday by one of my RC club friends, but I want a smaller one.

Thanks for all the interest and advice. I'll show y'all what I end up with when I get it. First I'm going to find out if I can crank it like I mentioned above by changing to the APC prop and back slapping it.
Rusty