Future Rare Collectables

ian1954 Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:35 pm

We have all seen recent events on Ebay where the value of "rare" engines has escalated. A few forum members have expressed their dislike of this trend but it is with us and here to stay.

Instead of dwelling on the past, if you are in to collectables or like the ultimate in variety, then look to the future. If engines that were produced in the thousands years ago are worth what they command today - then ask yourself about the future collectability of engines produced in low numbers today.

There are many examples available so think forwards. The opportunity for the majority to own a Strato Bug has gone. For much less you could buy these three.

Now, I know that one came from Matt and the other two from Bernie but (and please don't take offence), I don't know what they are called because they came in plastic bags and not with a nicely labelled box to keep them in. When I remove them for display ............ the only reference I have is the sales web site. If they are no longer for sale????? Hint!!! They can hardly be described as NIB, NIPB is not quite the same!

However, back to the point. These are produced in sub 100s - maybe now they haven't increased in value but in 5 years time when the "rare" cox engines are beyond reach?

I posted earlier to provoke the definition of rare and the response was illuminating. Jason realised that he wasn't the only hoarder and I am about to demonstrate this again.

I was surprised to learn that Space Hoppers were considered rare. Again produced in thousands.

However, variants of these are still being produced but as individually customised and unique pieces (together with box for nice reference).

Sorry for repeating the picture of the black one - it is my favourite. I don't have three of them. For me these are collectable.

My favourite new variant is the thermal hopper. Few of these will be produced.

And there is more - if you want a rear disc valve Cox engine - they are available.

These are all alternatives for the collector of Cox engines - all the engines (except the real McCoy Space Hoppers) are derivative of Cox parts. They all have the future potential to become rare and sought after and affordable to run and use if that is your preference.

I saw the comment on the VGE Cox engine - "I wish that I had bought one when they were avaialable new" (or words to that effect). You could apply that to the specials produced by Bernie and Matt just as well (Nice box please!) and all the other engines shown in this posting.

Look forwards not backwards. You cannot go back in time. Don't miss out on todays opportuniities.

Motra Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:06 pm

Good point. I would think that the old collectable engines that are still available will not be used but instead just collected and displayed and enjoyed. That means, later down the road when the collector gets bored with the hobby or gets desperate for money, he'll be ready to sell. So there will always be a circulation of engines, the circulation will just get thinner and thinner. The sad thing is when someone with a collection passes on and the family doesn't know what they're worth, they might get thrown away - just discarded as a worthless collection of toys.

EXModelEngines Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:30 pm

Some good points for sure. I have toyed with the idea of packaging for limited edition engines, but seeing how this pas run of Xmas Bee engines sold (or in this case did not sell very well) it might not have proved to be a value added opprotunity for us. Having said that, I do have a few ideas for packaging that may come to fruition in the near future. For the limited edition engines we did have a certificate of authenticity which listed all the specs and year of the engine. If you ever need a copy, please fell free to email us at sales@exmodelengines.com

Matt

ian1954 Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:57 am

Thank you Matt. For your response you have been rewarded with an order for one of your "Specials", NIPB!!!

However, if you note some of the comments on this site - many collectors prefer a "boxed/packaged" item. It is relatively easy to "forge" the specials produced by you and Bernie, all parts are available, adonising is easy............ The only guarantee (still not perfect!) is the engine with the original box plus certificate.

Does the box increase the value of the engine?

Take a bog standard, "run of the mill" Babe Bee, Pee Wee and watch the price double if they come in a "Hales" box! NIB is debatable (This may be UK specific).

Some collectors not only insist on "boxed/packaged" items but collect the whole range even though the engines are identical! Look at the Space Hoppers above - same engine, different package - one has gold highlighting.

I can see that "boxes" take up more room for posting but they could be "flat packed" for assembly by the recipient.

Please forgive me if I cause any upset - it is not meant to be. I am trying to encourage Cox and engine collecting fans to look to the future. If we all were born with degrees in hindsight - How many of us would have invested $5 in one or more RR1s, left it in the packaqe and stored it? Even bought several - some to keep and some to run - but kept the original packaging? You have the opportunity now!

Bernie - just so you are not left out you will also find an order for one of your "Specials", NIPB!!!!! Some Bluey looking thing the name of which I have already forgotten!

EXModelEngines Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:36 am

Ian,

I completely agree with your points regarding box and value. As you mention, a sell price for an engine usually carries substantially more value if it is boxed up nicely. For the any of the Cox engines purchased before 1996 one not only gets the box and engine, but the chance to own a piece of 'Cox History'. One can debate what this means to them specifically, but I believe most would argue that it carries more of a value from a collect-ability standpoint because of the chance to own an engine from this time. Obviously, production date and numbers will weight the specific engine more or less.

In my case, I feel that the primary need for us is to create engines for people to use and collect some of the 'limited' types that we may produce over the years. From a value standpoint it is probably not realistic to expect any engine we sell to have the same value as that of a NIB Strato Bug.

Personally, I love the boxed engines and mostly buy these types for my personal collection. Creating a box or some sort of packaging is definitely something I will look into, but it would probably only be for the more expensive engines or limited ones given the cost associated with making the packaging. Flat packing would be something to look into as well considering the cost for S&H has recently gone through the roof for our international friends.

In regards to our limited edition Xmas bee engines. It would take a decent amount of work to 'clone' or 'fake'. We have a diamond engraved crankcase, individually numbered with the year next to it. In addition, there is a certificate of authenticity that will have the same number match as on the engine. Finally, there is my signature on the COA.

I would like to thank you for the order!

Matt

Cox International Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:58 am

Ian,

Also thanks for your latest order.

One of the biggest issues with boxes is the cost. Just to throw a # out there, I would say that would increase the retail cost by about $10 when done in runs of 100 or so. Instructions could be included for that price. Throw in a couple of wrenches and add another $5.

For many buyers, receiving a "flat-shipped" box they have to assemble themselves, may be disappointing. For us to ship in boxes instead of bubble mailers would increase the cost by about $2. Boxes are more expensive to purchase, to have shipped to us, to pack and to add "peanuts" to.

So, if we add it all up, we are looking at about $17 more for a cloning of the red and black OEM Cox boxes, with wrenches and instructions. Even if I am way off with the box pricing and they only cost $5, that's still $12 more.

Try to sell that to buyers who are already complaing that our Golden Bee Engines are overpriced at $59 lol!

pkrankow Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:46 pm

Some questions and thoughts...
What is the price of unlabeled jewel boxes? Or instead a simple box that says "COX ENGINES"?
What is the price of color water resistant printing? Laser printing preferable.
Having a card packing will look a lot better than peanuts.

Now you can print a full color (or black and white really) back for the box and paste it on. Semi-permanent sticky labels are available in quite a few sizes so you probably can get this local.

Print a full color insert for the engine to be fastened to with twist ties. Include tools/spares fastened to a second card below the first. Full color customized certificate of authority and complete operating instructions.

Package it as a "collectors edition" and only make the quantity needed, when needed, priced as an option on the website to handle all the increased costs involved.

The labor cost is going to probably be higher than the rest of the packaging add-on. No I probably wouldn't buy this as an add on for myself, but maybe as a gift for someone else.

Phil

Cox International Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:15 pm

pkrankow wrote:Some questions and thoughts...
What is the price of unlabeled jewel boxes? Or instead a simple box that says "COX ENGINES"?

With a bottom, probably in the $4 range

pkrankow wrote:What is the price of color water resistant printing? Laser printing preferable.
Having a card packing will look a lot better than peanuts.

Peanuts are to cushion the engine box in the packing box

pkrankow wrote:Now you can print a full color (or black and white really) back for the box and paste it on. Semi-permanent sticky labels are available in quite a few sizes so you probably can get this local.

At $20/hr + the cost of colour prints this can get expensive

pkrankow wrote:Print a full color insert for the engine to be fastened to with twist ties. Include tools/spares fastened to a second card below the first. Full color customized certificate of authority and complete operating instructions.

Yes but see our initial response as to cost

pkrankow wrote:Package it as a "collectors edition" and only make the quantity needed, when needed, priced as an option on the website to handle all the increased costs involved.

Would have to make as many as the production run of engines. If not all buy the extras, we are stuck with them.

pkrankow wrote:The labor cost is going to probably be higher than the rest of the packaging add-on. No I probably wouldn't buy this as an add on for myself, but maybe as a gift for someone else. Phil

Yes, labour costs are expensive. That aside it's all about the economies of scale. Runds of 1,000 to 5,000 can be reasonable. Runs of 100 are cost-prohibitive.

ian1954 Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:13 pm

Not finished yet!

Firstly apologies because these next pictures are not Cox. These are engine boxes for engines that started being produced about the same time as Cox started full production. The full range is still being manufactured over 70 years later and there have been succesful forays into limited editions. The boxes are not expensive and the same box is used for all sizes of engines - from .55 cc to 10cc. Sometimes differentiation is by an ink stamp and sometimes by sticky label.

These are not fancy boxes and can only be pence not pounds to produce.

Even though the engines are still being produced today - the limited editions command a hefty premium and are sought after.

I am not proposing jewel cases, twisty bits of wire or full colour individual boxes but simple common boxes that can quickly identify the contents.

These can be made from a single small sheet.

A nicely designed single sheet derived box to suit all engines with a small label identifying the content, folded with one edge glued cannot be difficult or expensive. The last example would still fit in a jiffy bag and is not much larger than the engine itself. It also advertises the company that produced it.

EXModelEngines Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:51 pm

Ian,

Your latest post is more of what I had in mind if we were ever to do such a thing.

Matt

pkrankow Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:27 pm

Those PAW boxes were what I was thinking about. Blank colored ones are less than $1/piece with lid in case quantities of 100. (Google paper jewelry boxes)

Avery labels, such as the 6 per page size, would look great on them if desired.

Color printed plain paper flyers are about $1/per in quantities of 50 from places like Office Depot.

The fastening insert, extra parts, labor to put the package together...ok you got me there. Bubble wrap?

For a limited edition of 100 engines....

For every engine, not happening.

Phil

Cox International Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:44 pm

Yes, that style of box would be quite inexpensive and we could label individually by laser printing the sheets of labels here.

I was thinking of cloning the OEM Cox boxes, inserts and all and that's going to be too expensive.

The plain boxes are like 50 cents or so and the additional paperwork/labour might add another 50 cents.

Not a bad idea ...

Jason_WI Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:06 pm

You can also cut your own boxes out of card stock with a Cricut machine. Some of the new machines can print and cut in one operation. Not sure if custom logos and pics can be added though. Cricut has shut down other software companies that allowed you to do that.

Cox International Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:30 pm

Ok, we will ship all our engines in boxes. I think this is what we will use:

Future Rare Collectables Cox_bo10

The engine will be wrapped in a bubble-pack and the top of the box will have our Cox International Logo (in full-colour) and the engine size/name/etc.

ian1954 Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:42 pm

It looks big. Put an engine next to it - it looks the size of two boxes as it is a cube shape.

If too big it won't fit in a jiffy bag.

Cox International Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:53 pm

They will be 3" x 3" x 2" and will accommodate all the engine models we sell (lying on their side). They are actually so small that some engines will be almost too smug.

We will begin shipping in boxes sometime next week.

Thanks to the posters for directing my mind away from expensive Cox OEM boxes to something that is very do-able Hand Shake

Jason_WI Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:05 pm

Would previous limited edition engine buyers be able to purchase a box with the labels? xtreme and Blue Bullet come to mind.

**Admin** Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:21 pm

I like the boxes better than just tossing the engine in a bubble mailer. Those are going to be nice.

Cox International Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:15 pm

Jason_WI wrote:Would previous limited edition engine buyers be able to purchase a box with the labels? xtreme and Blue Bullet come to mind.

The short answer is "yes".

We plan to offer a "box" SKU for buyers that have engines they previously bought from us (or at any time from other vendors). Probably looking at a $1.95 item.

Furthermore, for buyers that will purchase our new and upcoming LE engine, we will ascertain if they had previously bought our other two LE engines and will provide those boxes to them free of charge when we ship their newest LE engine.

On Thursday I will be working on a nice decal that get's applied to the top of the box that will involve our logo, the engine name and perhaps some more artwork. If anyone has a suggestion, please feel free to bring it up.

pkrankow Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:48 pm

Got any high quality photographs of people FLYING the engine?

I'm a sucker for pictures of the engine on an airplane in use too, my voting in the picture contests tends to reflect this.

A nice clean image of a the included engine is always good. Using a stock image would be fine since you already have them on the website, and I would expect you have much higher quality copies on hand.

For future LE engines, having the actual serial number engine as the box image for the engine would be pretty wild. (pretty time consuming though)

Phil

John Goddard Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:55 am

Cox International wrote:They will be 3" x 3" x 2" and will accommodate all the engine models we sell (lying on their side). They are actually so small that some engines will be almost too smug.

All my engines are self satisfied
Wink

Cox International Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:14 pm

.... flying the LE engines... um, no, not that I know of.

Still working on the artwork but the label may include the engine picture.

Individual labels with engine pics with their respective serial #'s is out of question. I pay my staff #20/hr and it would become cost-prohibitive. Well, we could raise the engine price by $10 lol!

EXModelEngines Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:53 pm

Here is what I am pretty sure we will do for limited edition engines. I may do something similar for one or two high performance engines we offer, but given the labor intensive nature of these all engines will not have this. The box itself will have the exterior sleeve and the insert within. It will be up to the customer to fix the engine to the insert on the inside. I did it on this sample for demonstration purposes.

**Admin** Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:58 pm

Looks Great Matt!

ian1954 Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:01 pm

That does look good.

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