Cox Sanwa radio

GallopingGhostler wrote:Yes, I remember them back in the mid to late 1970's. They were affordable then compared with others. Hobby Shack was selling as similar one with an aluminum case through World Engines. I bought my Dad one for Christmas.

Instead I opted for the Ace Pulse Commander with KRD quck blip sequential throttle and stomper actuator. For proportional multichannel RC, I bought a Charlie's R/C (Bill Cannon's wife) kit Cannon 810 small 4 channel sport system. Built it as a college student.

Yes, it should be fun. I guess you could also replace the RF section with a modern 2.4 GHz RF deck and receiver. I've thought about doing that to my old Charlie's 810 transmittter.

You could modify the RF section, but the transmitter is still a 2 stick. Right stick is left-right, left stick is up-down. A single stick for those 2 functions is much more natural and easier to use.  It isn't that easy to fly with a 2 stick radio. It is like having 2 brains. 1 brain for turning and 1 brain for elevation.

Happydad. (Labor Day)

Oh, I think one could also look at as a rudder only with throttable engine. In that case, its 2 thumbs anyway. If one flies Mode 1, they'd be using elevator on the left anyway, wouldn't they? Regarding retaining the original control functions even with 2.4 GHz, isn't that the fun of it?

I think it a matter of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.

I got these a few years back at a flea market, came with an RC Bee. 2 servos, 72.160MHz receiver, battery box and a switch. Dirty. They're yours if you want them. If I recall, the guy used them on an air boat/swamp buggy but "threw the radio away when the frequency became illegal without a license".

Bob, I'm not familiar with that kit radio you built, but the Vintage R/C Society (VRCS) or someone on the Ace R/C Yahoo Groups site would probably be able to give you more info on that radio. Not to hijack this thread, but this is the Charlie's R/C (Cannon 810) kit radio that I built in the late 1970's.



I've been considering doing a 2.4 GHz conversion on it for nostalgia sake.

rsv1cox wrote:Thanks for the responses guys. My first four channel radio was one I built from a kit.  A Blue Max or a Black Max but I can't recall the name exactly.  If your familar with it let me know, it's killing me that I can't locate any info on it.  I either threw it away or gave it away years ago.

Bob

Bob, it was Blue Max available in 4 or 6 channels as a kit or built up from World Engines. I also built the four channel version. I still have it but it is 27.195 before they went to narrow bands.

BTW, I think the Blue Max was derived from the "Digitrio" three channel set.

George

You can make TD .049 powered swamp boat or go with a TD.09 or TD.15 enough power to run on grass. If you have a Queen Bee the weight penalty wont make much difference with a boat.

Bob, those Cox radios were decent back in the late 1970's early 1980's. Servos and flight pack were small enough to be fitted in an Airtronics Q-Tee. A good application these days if one is not a 2 channel Mode-1 flier is rudder only with throttle.

If one has never flown that route before, it is truly a blast. Ace Pulse Commander manual described the mechanics of flying rudder only and how to do rudder only stunts. The 1960's and 1970's with Ace pulse was a simpler time with simple half-A aircraft that was durable enough to sustain crashes in tall grass without rekitting, one could do gutsier things with R/O because of that and spare the larger planes during less than ideal winds and weather.

rsv1cox wrote:I finally powered this radio up.  It takes 12 AA batteries, eight in the transmitter and four in the receiver.  Makes you wish for rechargable nicads.

Everything works including the servos that Jacob sent me.  Now I have to find something to put it in.  The Strutz Aircrate is a possibility, rudder and elevator if I rebuild it light enough.  





The transmitter batteries are nearly impossible to install.  I had to remove the whole backplate to get them in.  This thing appears unused, I had to unwrap some parts.  I have no idea what the spring and copper piece are used for.

Spring and copper thing are probably used to make the left stick into a ratcheting throttle instead of an elevator (spring centered) channel.

706jim wrote:

rsv1cox wrote:I finally powered this radio up.  It takes 12 AA batteries, eight in the transmitter and four in the receiver.  Makes you wish for rechargable nicads.

Everything works including the servos that Jacob sent me.  Now I have to find something to put it in.  The Strutz Aircrate is a possibility, rudder and elevator if I rebuild it light enough.  




The transmitter batteries are nearly impossible to install.  I had to remove the whole backplate to get them in.  This thing appears unused, I had to unwrap some parts.  I have no idea what the spring and copper piece are used for.

Spring and copper thing are probably used to make the left stick into a ratcheting throttle instead of an elevator (spring centered) channel.

706Jim: Take it from someone who has been there and used the equipment. In the early 19080's I had a friend, who shall remain anonymous, who actually worked for Cox-Estes-Leisure Dynamics-whatever they were called. He would go to the plant in L.a, SouthEast of Disneyland, and advise them on designing and building new planes, cars, etc. in the RC area. When he came back to San Diego at night he would drop by the trash bins to see what projects the "experts" in the design office had killed and were in the huge trash bins. So when my friend and I would visit him, onetime with the trunk full, he said "take what you want, it's bleep". And most of it was. WE got a couple of nice early foam gliders, a small electric pod powered plane called the Hawk I think, and several other sort of nice foam planes, but the 27MHz or 49MHz radios they were REALLY worthless. Poor range, intermittent potentiometers, really cheap construction and poorly designed.
   This 2 channel, left-right, up-down radio falls into the category prior to the takeover of the new guys. The last of the 72MHz radios, if I remember. But be sure to double check range. Remove the antenna and you should be able to control the receiver between 30 - 50 feet. Check the operation of the potentiometers, slowly move the sticks up-down or left-right and observe the control surfaces. If they jitter, clean the potentiometers, or replace them. Etc. If you are going to fly an airplane with this RC setup you need to check it out completely. It is several years old. And we, Oops, those parts can be finicky after all those years.
   Just be careful. Those setups were marginal when they were new and they are not new anymore.
     I am just try to be honest. notice I didn't promote any other brand.

happydad

We managed to have a lot of luck with these radios in the early 1980's..."The Era of the 'Q-Tee'", as I call it.  Seems EVERYBODY was building Q-Tees, except for me, and the little Sanwa radios always worked OK for us.  There was plenty of carnage, to be sure, but it was usually the result of bad radio commands or the occasional poorly-glued wing rail giving up.



I used one of them in my first sailplane, a Midwest Lil' T that survived for several years, to finally succumb to some 'new' transmitter batteries that croaked a couple minutes into it's last flight.  The radio tested fine (even the abused flight pack) with replacement batteries, and was used in a Sportavia 'till that plane finally got too fuel-soaked to fly.

The one mod I did was to rotate the gimbals so that the elevator and rudder (or ailerons) mimicked other radios, with the elevator of the right and roll on the left.



 Still got the thing, tucked away somewhere, so may have to power it up sometime just for the heck of it...don't know if I'd still fly it !!!

The build instructions that came with the Airtronics Q-Tee plans showed the Cox 2 channel system in the build photos and recommended it for installation. I remember that specifically.

Initially I had Q-Tee as single channel with auxiliary throttle using the Ace pulse system and Black Widow with Ace throttle ring. Elevator was built as 2 channel, but I had a pushrod that was fastened to the fuselage on one side and elevator horn on the other. This allowed me to adjust the decalage for proper flight and adjust for windier conditions. (Less negative incidence meant less climb in wind to keep climb reasonable when windier. Otherwise one could lose the model in rudder only flight.)

Later when I acquired and assembled their kit radio, I modified Q-Tee and installed the Charlie's R/C 810 radio with Cannon midi servos (midway between the their truly mini and standard). Using the single Mode-2 stick was nice. Later when narrow band became effective, I rewired the servos with Futaba connectors and went with a Futaba stencil radio (Hobby Shack).

I just wanted to add that in 1964, the Sampey 404 proportional 3 channel system went for $399 US for the base model. Using an on-line inflation calculator, that is $3,032 US (€2,664 EU) today. (See Aug-1964 RCM, Page 48, download link:
http://www.rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=1020)

The Cox/Sanwa 2 channel back in the late 1970's was going for $80 US at Pete's Model Hobbycraft in Hawaii. That's $277 US in today's money, but then it was considered cost effective. Only reason why I did not opt for that radio is for a little more, I was able to get the Charlie's R/C kit which had Mode-2. (Heathkit 5 channel kit radio system was $209 in 1972, that is $1,194 in today's money.)
You can now get a 4 channel or more system for under $100 today. We've come a long way since then with our radio electronics.