Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

rsv1cox Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:53 am

So, my son has this vendor friend at the flea market. Yesterday he stopped by and he gave Mark this Speed plane model plus a parts O&R that is unmarked in displacement but looks to be a .19. It is numbered however - 304424.

The plane is nicely done with an aluminum pan a hard-wood wing and balsa fuselage. I have no idea if the wood came from a kit or is handmade. Speed planes hold little interest for me (a long time ago I gave Ron Cribbs a full-length pan that appeared to be magnesium not aluminum.) This one will look good hanging next to my only other some-what different single line speedplane.

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The plane is tagged "Torpedo .19", I have some Torpedo green heads but they are .35's. But I have a McCoy .19 which should do nicely.

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GallopingGhostler Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:35 am

Bob, someone gave you a very nice rellic from the past, (early 1950's?) when C/L was king. About only drawback to the Testor McCoy .19 Red Head lightning bolt engine is exhaust on right side instead of left, unless you modify the fuselage nose.

Magnesium speed pan, I remember those being sold still in the 1960's from places like AHC, Polks Hobbies, even Hobby Shack, etc. It allowed the plane to skid land on its belly after a run, I gather.

That was at a time when guys would open car and building doors for women (ladies first), the opposite was treated with great respect. One would dress in their better clothes to go shopping, not like we see in worn shamelessly today. (Oops, showing my 7 decade age! Shocked

)

rsv1cox Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:42 pm

Thanks George, in my enthusisum I never noticed that. It might be difficult to find the proper engine to fit in there. Bearers are drilled on the pan and are far apart. Hand printed on the pan are the words "Dizzy Boy" I don't know if that's the manufacturer or the guy that owned it.

Maybe an Enya or OS.

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BTW, I love your new avatar picture, only one that rivals it is Jim Howells.

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Ken Cook Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:20 pm

Dizzy Boy is the name of the plane. It won the Nationals but I don't remember the year. Power was usually a redhead rear rotor Mccoy or Dooling .29. The Kansas Twister is another of that era that I always wanted to build.

rsv1cox Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:53 pm

Ken Cook wrote:Dizzy Boy is the name of the plane. It won the Nationals but I don't remember the year. Power was usually a redhead rear rotor Mccoy or Dooling .29. The Kansas Twister is another of that era that I always wanted to build.

Your right Ken, won the Nationals speed around 109 MPH if I remember correctly, which I probably don't. Lot's about it on RC Groups. Came in different sizes/displacements I guess. This one will only house an Enya 09II with the exhaust, mount holes and needle in the correct positions. Probably not the same engine as originally equipped.

I opened it up and found DeBolt Speed Wagon and "Dizzy Boy A" scribed inside. I'm still getting educated. Wouldn't it be fun if this was the actual Nationals plane.

Nifty single line bell-crank too.

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Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy Debolt10

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roddie Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:04 pm

Is that set up for a "mono-line" control-system?

Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy Dizzy_10

lla Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:09 pm

Thought I share will you
I have these from a old timer, now passed
I like looking at them , have a few plans
Gregg

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lla Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:21 pm

Please delete

rsv1cox Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:29 pm

roddie wrote:Is that set up for a "mono-line" control-system?

Yes, picture above roddie. I'll repeat - good and not so good. These threads take on a life of their own.

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rsv1cox Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:31 pm

lla wrote:Thought I share will you
I have these from a old timer, now passed
I like looking at them , have a few plans
Gregg

Thanks for sharing Gregg, all beautiful but that PBY Catalina is special.

Bob

lla Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:41 pm

here is a better picture of it. It is a nice plane from the same person

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rdw777 Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:45 pm

Nice old speed ship Bob….A couple of pages of tips on speed planes from one of those mini data books from America’s Hobby Center …Dated 1962…. ..It came free in one of my orders in the 80’s…. For when you’re ready for the Nat’s Very Happy

…..

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rsv1cox Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:12 am

Thanks for those pages Robert, copying them into my folder.

After trying almost all of my engines I finally came across this Torpedo .19, and it's a perfect fit. Meets all the criteria, mounting holes, left side exhaust, needle valve position, length. And, the tag on the speed plane says "Torpedo .19". Except...........

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The head/cylinder will not fit into the plane. Big groan.

Thinking maybe the Torpedo .15 or .09

GallopingGhostler Tue Apr 30, 2024 1:51 pm

Bob, I think it was @Ken Cook that mentioned he had a Testors .19 Red Head lightning bolt engine, which he had the fins on the steel cylinder turned down and aluminum head reduced slightly in diameter, to make it clear the streamlined balsa cowling and fit.

A left-hand exhaust 1965 Enya .09-III might also work, but would be at least 10 - 15 years later than the O&R fit. Perhaps model the last of this type of speed plane sold still in the 1960's?

Being less of a purist and more of a practicalist, I was never a "pure" historic preservation specialist.

While working:

The fact you are bringing back a little history even if it has a few minor deviations helps these to live on in our forum here. Cool

Robert, I like that 1962 instructions tutorial from that historic booklet of yours. Back then, I bet they had a draftsman draw that out on a larger sheet of drafting paper, say, at least 17"x22", maybe larger, then ink it. Computer aided drafting was still 20 years away, and that on expensive mini-computers*, prior, time sharing to remote mainframes.

* Back in the mid 1980's, I worked on Computervision 2nd generation minicomputer CAD systems, $115,000 for 1 color station, 2 monochrome stations, DEC VT100 text terminal station, and electrostatic plotter. (This was prior to AutoCAD.)

1962 instructions lettering was done by hand stenciling. Reproduce it at reduced scale for inclusion in the book. This was done from sketches and notes provided by an engineer or technician on board with the company. It amazes me how back then, written publications were provided in the thousands of copies, so prolific was interest in model airplanes, with hobby shops, many mom & pop, in nearly every town and city.

rsv1cox Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:18 pm

Thanks for reminding me George, I had forgotten about Ken's comment. I would probably have to mill off a portion of the exhaust outlet too. Wish I had a lathe. Now to get out my monster sized plumbers Channel Locks and twist that baby off....................

GallopingGhostler Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:30 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Now to get out my monster sized plumbers Channel Locks and twist that baby off....................

But Bob, you have better finese than that. You're not a knuckle dragger.

Ken Cook Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:31 pm

My shaved engine is indeed a Torpedo .19. The engine lugs are also shave slightly and rounded due to being in the pan. That particular pan was introduced in the early 60's. I think it's a Tatone A pan. I have a B pan that broke and I had it welded by a very talented individual. I asked him how much to cover the cost and he said I could never afford what it cost to fix it. He said when we cross paths again, I owe him a coffee. I always keep a few dollars on me for that day.

rdw777 Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:33 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Robert, I like that 1962 instructions tutorial from that historic booklet of yours.

Thanks George, I like going thru it from time to time just to admire the artwork…. The draftsmen were talented and took a lot of pride in their work …. Another drawing below by
P.D.G…… I think near half of the book was illustrated by him… Very talented….

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GallopingGhostler Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:34 pm

rdw777 wrote:Thanks George, I like going thru it from time to time just to admire the artwork…. The draftsmen were talented and took a lot of pride in their work …. Another drawing below by P.D.G…… I think near half of the book was illustrated by him… Very talented….

Thanks, Robert, you probably already know this, but P.D.G. is Paul Del Gatto. Not only was he a gifted draftsman, he was also a gifted designer. Several of the Scientific rubber powered planes were his designs. I think he also did a few Scientific half-A C/L designs, too.

Trivia, back in the late 1990's, his daughter contacted Joe Wagner, model designer and engine tester. She had a request if someone out there had something she could remember her father's model plane work by. (Joe then maintained a PDF newsletter. We'd send him small plane stuff of interest. He'd then compile these into a newsletter with his comments and replies, and E-mail them to us two weeks later. It was produced mid-month and end-of-month.)

I happened to have 2 plans from SIG of the "Craftsman Series" (formerly Berkeley 36" span half-A scale free flight designs) kits. One was the earlier under Berkeley. The later from SIG had the Berkeley title block replaced with SIG.

Through Joe, I contacted her and mailed her Berkeley plan, it was in like new condition with its original Berkeley printed envelope. I was happy to provide her such to remember her late father by.

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Back of my Berkeley Plans envelope with plans list and costs. Interstate Super Cadet Plan is half way down left column, Plan# P4-6, cost $1.00 US.

Outerzone also has the plan as PDF:
Outerzone Plan #253: Interstate Super Cadet by Paul Del Gatto from Berkeley 1952, 35in span

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Plan thumbnail from Outerzone.

rdw777 Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:50 pm

Neat vintage trail story George, Thanks for sharing that Very Happy

…. The drawing for Cadet that PDG did is beautiful and typical of his work…. Sharp detail even on the different engines…. Neat airplane too…. More than a few during this time had option for FF or CL…. Rubber or Gas….Would be fun to try one thru all the combinations….

lla Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:58 pm

If you like plans
Gregg

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rsv1cox Wed May 01, 2024 7:54 am

Thanks Gregg, yes, we love plans here.

Enya .09II, Oh so close. Not the proper engine but it would do until one comes along. I will find my most beat up example, edge out the holes and mod the NVA and case.

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Leading edge piece is separate, rotates and I think is removable.

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Bell-crank is interesting. Rotates, twisting motion and works off a cam with a pin/control rod moving the elevator.

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GallopingGhostler Thu May 02, 2024 12:00 am

Bob, interesting you have a monoline for control. Philosophy was less drag with one line for better speed. Used to be a procurable item, then maybe special order from a local Hobby Shop. (I remember hobby shops having catalogs, in which you could special order items from them.)

Guess these days, C/L speed is a dying event. Don't hear much of it.

Proto half-A speed uses 2 line control?

rsv1cox Thu May 02, 2024 6:43 am

Thanks George, I know little about speed planes and even less about speed contests and events other than what Ken has posted over the years. But I do admire the the speed planes design and the thought that goes into them.

A couple of things stand out. The drain hole in the pan isn't drilled just straight down, it's drilled at an angle so it will drain better in-flight and the relief behind the exhaust port, same thing.

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It looks like this model has been flown a lot. Deep gouges in the pan shows many landings on asphault or gravel. A testimony to the skill of the pilot. No one and done here.

GallopingGhostler Thu May 02, 2024 10:23 am

You're welcome, Bob. Regarding the Enya .09-II, I think it would be period correct, as C/L speed was still viable in the late 1950's. I imagine it would compete in the "A" engine category. (Just speculating, as I am not intimate with C/L speed.) The mount holes seem to line up almost perfectly.

Yeppers, a bygone era, but, a piece of history that us old model plane buffs can still appreciate.

Regarding the drain, may seem that way would help by angling the hole, but sometimes what we expect in wind tunnel tests doesn't always come out the way we think. Personally, I think he would have been okay to just leave the hole drilled down straight. It is the weight of the spent oil and tiny bit of suction from the "wing rib profile" of the pan accelerating the air dropping the air pressure from ambient that caused the draining. Cool

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Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

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Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

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Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

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Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

Re: Speed plane - Crispy but not too crispy

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