S1 Ringmaster

Well Ken I came across this. file:///C:/Users/jaysea/Desktop/Vintage%20Model%20Airplane%20Kits%20&%20Motors%20at%20The%20Best%20Things.html  Well can't get the link to work. They have full kit a Sterling kit for $75.
    I was just wondering, if the original kit was better or not.  I fly for fun as I have mentioned before. Just asking. And i see with the Brodak's kits, the  ribs are attached to the leading edge with a different method.
That's all.
jim

I guess it depends on what you want out of the model. I have a Sterling kit plane that was built in the late 50’s and restored by me about 5 yrs ago now. It was my first full sized plane and it allowed me to begin to learn to fly the pattern. It took a beating to say the least, it is heavy and still tough as nails.

I say all that because depending on where you are it may serve you better to build a kit or.... build one from scratch as originally designed. Plans are out there. The Brodak kit is light with a built up leading edge. It will fly well, but not handle a serious crash.

Now that I can fly without crashing I would consider a Brodak.

Ron

Cribbs74 wrote:I guess it depends on what you want out of the model. I have a Sterling kit plane that was built in the late 50’s and restored by me about 5 yrs ago now. It was my first full sized plane and it allowed me to begin to learn to fly the pattern. It took a beating to say the least, it is heavy and still tough as nails.

I say all that because depending on where you are it may serve you better to build a kit or.... build one from scratch as originally designed. Plans are out there. The Brodak kit is light with a built up leading edge. It will fly well, but not handle a serious crash.

Now that I can fly without crashing I would consider a Brodak.

Ron

I'm scratch building a r/m from the Sterling plans by Matt Kania 1951.  What I want from it is a lot  of fun flying times. I don't fly the pattern.  I want what I would think anyone would want, a plane that flies well and to have fun doing it. .

Jim, if you build the plane per plans, you will receive the enjoyment your seeking. I prefer the Sterling kit over the others mentioned. The main reasons for me is due to my engine choice which is the Fox .35. I have found this engine to be quite problematic with the others and the ARF variants. As I mentioned in one of my prior posts, substituting the doublers for thinner saves a good amount of weight. I like the Sterling kits for the solid leading and trailing edges. I remove the spar because it self destructs the wing on a mild impact. This piece of wood is known as the rib ripper. Removing it also saves further weight. When this plane takes a ground strike, the wing unfold on the biscuit that's holding the two halves together. The trailing edge joint separates and the rib ripper does it's job when it breaks every rib inside the wing. This piece of wood is not really a spar but rather a building jig for the wing. It allowed the ribs to slip onto it aligning them and it was not to be glued until you removed it from the building board. At this point if the wing required torsional straightening the wing was placed back onto the table, weighted and twisted as necessary by shimming the opposing corner and then glued . The main strength of the Ringmaster wing comes from the solid leading edge and trailing edge.

For me it becomes easier to build this style of structure in terms of time and straightness. I make my own leading edge stock and I buy aileron stock in 36" lengths for my trailing edges. I buy 2 1/2" wide stock and rip it down to the desired width. For making the dado joints in my leading edges, I place the leading edge on my table saw with a 100 tooth blade used for cutting plastics as it has a 3/32" kerf which is my rib stock width. I have a scribe mark etched onto the bed of the saw and once I cut the first one, I align the dado on my register and so forth and so forth to replicate equal distant dado spacings. I leave the first 12" of the leading edge stock solid from both inboard and outboard wings, in between ribs I use a core box bit and I hollow out the leading edges all the way out to the tips. Ken

Well I went ahead and ordered up some maple 1/2 x 1/2 from Brodak. I will be mounting a McCoy .35 on the nose of this R/M. I'm also debating with myself, whether to order a set of ribs or make myself. I have always made them myself but not for a .35 size plane. I will build per plans of the Sterling. I can't find where to buy a set of ribs that are of the Sterling design.

oldguy wrote:

Cribbs74 wrote:I guess it depends on what you want out of the model. I have a Sterling kit plane that was built in the late 50’s and restored by me about 5 yrs ago now. It was my first full sized plane and it allowed me to begin to learn to fly the pattern. It took a beating to say the least, it is heavy and still tough as nails.

I say all that because depending on where you are it may serve you better to build a kit or.... build one from scratch as originally designed. Plans are out there. The Brodak kit is light with a built up leading edge. It will fly well, but not handle a serious crash.

Now that I can fly without crashing I would consider a Brodak.

Ron

I'm scratch building a r/m from the Sterling plans by Matt Kania 1951.  What I want from it is a lot  of fun flying times. I don't fly the pattern.  I want what I would think anyone would want, a plane that flies well and to have fun doing it. .

I probably should have worded that better. What I meant is...did you want a trainer or something a little more competitive. Going off of what you said then either one will serve you. Looks like you settled on the right one.

Ron

The Mccoy is a nice light engine for the Ring . Unfortunately, our club has strict rules and muffling these engines can prove to be highly problematic. Rather than cutout both doublers for the engine case as Sterling typically does, leaving the inboard doubler to cover over the case cutout can also assist in better engine runs as it stiffens the two bearers. If the case is protruding slightly past, shimming the engine bearers off of the fuse under the lugs with some quality aluminum stock will also be beneficial to your engine run as it will provide more of a footprint. The gear wire provided in those Sterling kits was very very good wire. This enabled them to use 3/32" wire, today's wire even K&S is quite soft and will bend, up the wire size to 1/8" and this will also fit the wheels without bushing them. Foam wheels can assist in alleviating nose weight. Brodak offers a nice set of foam wheels as does Dave Brown products. Dubro makes even a lighter set which is their micro sport wheels in 21/2", these wheels even designed for park flyers will take the abuse of glow.

Ken Cook wrote:           The Mccoy is a nice light engine for the Ring . Unfortunately, our club has strict rules and muffling these engines can prove to be highly problematic. Rather than cutout both doublers for the engine case as Sterling typically does, leaving the inboard doubler to cover over the case cutout can also assist in better engine runs as it stiffens the two bearers. If the case is protruding slightly past, shimming the engine bearers off of the fuse under the lugs with some quality aluminum stock will also be beneficial to your engine run as it will provide more of a footprint. The gear wire provided in those Sterling kits was very very good wire. This enabled them to use 3/32" wire, today's wire even K&S is quite soft and will bend, up the wire size to 1/8" and this will also fit the wheels without bushing them. Foam wheels can assist in alleviating nose weight. Brodak offers a nice set of foam wheels as does Dave Brown products. Dubro makes even a lighter set which is their micro sport wheels in 21/2", these wheels even designed for park flyers will take the abuse of glow.

Thanks again for the advice, makes sense it should help stiffen the nose some.

Ken Cook wrote:           Jim, if you build the plane per plans, you will receive the enjoyment your seeking. I prefer the Sterling kit over the others mentioned. The main reasons for me is due to my engine choice which is the Fox .35. I have found this engine to be quite problematic with the others and the ARF variants. As I mentioned in one of my prior posts, substituting the doublers for thinner saves a good amount of weight. I like the Sterling kits for the solid leading and trailing edges. I remove the spar because it self destructs the wing on a mild impact. This piece of wood is known as the rib ripper. Removing it also saves further weight.  When this plane takes a ground strike, the wing unfold on the biscuit that's holding the two halves together. The trailing edge joint separates and the rib ripper does it's job when it breaks every rib inside the wing. This piece of wood is not really a spar but rather a building jig for the wing. It allowed the ribs to slip onto it aligning them and it was not to be glued until you removed it from the building board. At this point if the wing required torsional straightening the wing was placed back onto the table, weighted and twisted as necessary by shimming the opposing corner and then glued . The main strength of the Ringmaster wing comes from the solid leading edge and trailing edge.

     For me it becomes easier  to build this style of structure in terms of time and straightness. I make my own leading edge stock and I buy aileron stock in 36" lengths for my trailing edges. I buy 2 1/2" wide stock and rip it down to the desired width. For making the dado joints in my leading edges, I place the leading edge on my table saw with a 100 tooth blade used for cutting plastics as it has a 3/32" kerf which is my rib stock width. I have a scribe  mark etched onto the bed of the saw and once I cut the first one, I align the dado on my register and  so forth and so forth to replicate equal distant dado spacings. I leave the first 12" of the leading edge stock solid from both inboard and outboard wings, in between ribs I use a core box bit and I hollow out the leading edges all the way out to the tips. Ken

Ken where do you buy you wood stock if I can ask ?

I have a lot of wood from years of accumulation. However, anymore it seems that when I do need a specific thickness I never have enough of it. Bob Hunt who's legendary in the field of control line has supplied me with much of the wood I own. I see Bob annually or I should say I used to. Our swap meet which was the week prior to Thanksgiving has ceased after 30 years. Bob would attend with all his wings and he would bring a amazing selection of balsa. I need to print this out. Bob provided me with a chart that if you weigh the single sheet in grams for a certain length and width it provides it's density weight.

When I've made purchases, I used National Balsa but after Covid like many others, shipping policies had changes which can make small orders not worth it. I also use Balsa USA. I like Balsa USA because they're menu is easy to sort through at least for me.

Yes that chart would be helpful I think for instance what weight wood you used on ribs and The rudder and stabilizer and the body itself or the flaps I have no clue. But I did buy some hardwood mounting blocks for the ringmaster but I still deciding if I should cut the stock ones out that I already have epoxyed in and add longer. I am afraid I will do a hack job on the Fuselage. What do you think
All I have is a scroll saw
I did make new doublers that extend back to the high part of the wing

I would continue on with the build. I wouldn't change them out. They're already glued in. When I need to remove stuff that I epoxied in, I use a heat gun to do so and I can get the pieces apart cleanly. In this situation, I would just glue your new doublers on and go fly it.

Thanks Ken

I been using the cloth hinges there almost like a piece of paper I just cut a slot in the elevator and stabilizer and slide it in and hit it with CA but they get stiff and always stay in the neutral. Does it mater much if they don’t flip and how does it effect the flying. It’s only 3/16 balsa or I would use the plastic hinges. I could Sow them on but I’m a little about looks ?

Any suggestions?

Your terminology is a bit confusing. Cloth hinges are typically over and under hinges that have pinked (Zig Zag) cuts on the sides. What your suggesting to me sounds like a CA hinge.  CA hinges are a very bad idea for control line. Not only do they stay in neutral, they fail. Despite what others on here have said, it took me a very short time to discover that they fail. A control line elevator sees a lot more use and movement over r/c planes.

I don't just fly in circles and I lean towards the plane flying to the best of it's ability. In order to do so, this means smooth controls and not controls that are going to want to return to neutral. If your asking how does this impact flying? It affects it greatly. It's like flying a plane with stiff controls, the plane is going to want to hunt up and down and if you fly the pattern and your looking for clean and proper intersections, look elsewhere.  In addition, CA is a very bad idea. It creates a hard point and it breaks. I gave a detailed description how to use nylon pin hinges. They're the best hinges to use for elevator surfaces. Not only will they outlast the plane, no other hinge offers less resistance assuming they're installed correctly. The only time I've ever felt the need for a CA hinge is on very aged planes that have been wrecked. If I can't separate the elevator connection for a new pin hinge, I've used the CA hinge by flexing it into the slot.

Yes it CA hinges. Wasn’t sure but now I am. Can you point the way to your way of installing the pin hinges.
And I ran into another snag the plans call for a perfect large bellcrank but the pre cut outs in the ribs aren’t big enough.

Does anyone know what size bellcrank goes in the original sterling s-1 ?

Cut the entire rib out leaving about 1/8" around the perimeter, you don't need it. You can cut more than 50% of the rib material out of the inboard ribs from tip to No 1 center rib. Sterling also used square dies to make the leadout holes in the ribs, never make a square penetration in anything, it only sets up a stress riser and the rib will break out of one of the corners. The bellcrank platform while glued to the rib is also glued to the sheeting, the spar etc. I never build any .35 size model with a single platform bellcrank like the instructions shown. I use two platforms one above and one below. I then use a 1/8" piece of music wire as a axle in which I secure it from sliding out with 1/8" wheel collars or soldered washers. Now there's been 250 thousand Ringmasters probably built and they've all been done in the same manner that your building yours so I wouldn't sweat it. I do what I do because I fly mine much harder than most using them for slow combat and demos where we've had 10 or more flying in the same circle at a time. I can't afford a snagged line and the platform that breaks out causing a flyaway.

As for pin hinges, I cut the slots in both halves, I take the hinge and manually move it in my hands. Feel for clicking which I would be very surprised if you have one that doesn't. Move them slow completely through their travel. Remove any flash with a sharp knife carefully until all snagging is terminated. I personally open the holes up larger in the hinge so that the epoxy can get in better. I then sand the hinge leafs and rough up the nylon. I then oil each hinge barrell thoroughly moving the leaf to insure saturation. I then clean each hinge leaf with acetone or dope thinner to remove any oils from manufacturing and oil that I got on during the barrell oiling. TEST FIT EVERYTHING PRIOR TO GLUING. When insured, mix up 30 min epoxy and use a thin metal spatula and insert epoxy into either the elevator or the stab doing one hinge at a time. Don't try to glue both sides. Glue all of the hinges in the elevator side or the stab and when dry assemble the other side.

     When using epoxy, keep rubbing alcohol present by your side while doing so as it will remove any excess and not leave any residue. When the slot is filled with epoxy, hit it with a heat gun and the epoxy will thin and run down into the slot where you will need to add a bit more. When filled, use your alcohol and a towel to wipe off any excess prior to  inserting hinge. DON'T pull it back out, insert it once and insure no squeeze out goes into the  barrells. There's no need to further pin the hinge to secure it to the wood, this will not pull out of the wood. A S-1 is going to require 6 pin hinges to properly support the stab. Keep the furthest outmost hinges as close as you can to the edge without the leafs protruding out of the radiused ends.

Got it down now thanks Ken I appreciate your help. I ended up going with 1/4 inch for elevator and stabilizer the stock was only 1/8 inch. And even wit 3/16 balsa that would be a little tricky cutting in the slots for pin hinges, for me anyway

Excellent thread with all of the build advice. Thanks Ken! so much detail on things I just dont and wouldnt know on building models, and its pragmatic, in how to build them so as that they fly well and hard if needed. The tips and advice are things I can do once I know them. I have been cutting and pasting the advice from this thread and several other similar ones with great build advice into an offline document/Notes that I can keep and lookup to save me trying to trawl through searches and stuff as I may forget the exact details but I remember that what I needed to know was there. by putting it in offline Doc by cut and paste I can just go to the info easily when Im doing something. the hinge information is very helpful as I have had several in-flight hinge failures and I now understand a much better way to install and use the nylon hinges I use such that they hopefully dont fail/break off on me anymore!! Lol.


Yabby

I can't take credit for the advice. While I've offered some of my ideas, the majority of what I post is knowledge passed on from others. I've been fortunate to be a part of a group that essentially paved the path for making models of the highest level imaginable. Many have passed away but I'm pretty fortunate to have those that are still with us.

One problem with the Ringmaster is that the stab sits atop of the fuse. I've had crashes which resulted in the control horn pulling the elevator in the down position until it stops. This breaks the stab off and usually prior to it coming off, the hinges pull out as well. I used to use RC/56 to glue in the pin hinges but it would always fail so I switched to epoxy and no more issues.

Ken Cook wrote:            I can't take credit for the advice. While I've offered some of my ideas, the majority of what I post is knowledge passed on from others. I've been fortunate to be a part of a group that essentially paved the path for making models of the highest level imaginable. Many have passed away but I'm pretty fortunate to have those that are still with us.

One problem with the Ringmaster is that the stab sits atop of the fuse. I've had crashes which resulted in the control horn pulling the elevator in the down position until it stops. This breaks the stab off and usually prior to it coming off, the hinges pull out as well. I used to use RC/56 to glue in the pin hinges but it would always fail so I switched to epoxy and no more issues.

The really good thing Ken is that yourself and others on this forum and other forums are still passing all those combined learnings on. I have had young aerospace embedded realtime engineering graduates that worked under me come to me and thank me for teaching them so much and spending so much time with them, and I always say to them, its part of the deal. People put a lot of extra time into teaching me things when I was a young engineer and the best way I can repay that is to do the same. and they too can do that one day when they are older. Plus I love seeing them grow as engineers and people.

I still love learning ( although my wife would beg the differ Lol. ) and helping others learn/understand where i am able. Lots of these seemingly small details as to building models are very frustrating to me as I dont always find them intuitive. Lol. so i greatly appreciate knowledge being passed on to me and others.


Yabby

Question
Is it ok to install landing gear the way the print shows or is there a better way