Re: PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL

TD ABUSER Mon Feb 20, 2023 1:50 pm

944_Jim wrote:I dunno how thin the elevator/stab is, but an old Floppy disk will yield a pile of hinges with really flippity-flippy elevators (and I imagine, rudder, flaps).
The trick is to cut the wood in parallel lines. I learned a double-edge razor secured to a shim and tabletop will cut the surfaces pretty accurately. Go slowly. Shim as required to get in the center of the parts.
Cut the floppy disk material into 3/16"x 3/8" strips (or however long to fit your slots)and insert into the parts as you would your EZ hinges. Lightly scuff the disk to remove the "magnetic" coating, and clean with a swipe of acetone-laced cloth for best adhesion. Pin them after installation if desired.

One of the boys' trainers took an absolute beating, yet the hinges survived admirably. I was shocked by how well they stayed in place!

I hate to admit it but I don't think I've ever seen or held a floppy disk...!!
I'm not sure what thickness Goozgog used for his FW 190 stab.
The stab has about about 15" of span ...so I might want to use 3/16" thick balsa.
I'll try your method for hinge slotting and I'll ask around for a floppy disk...!
I am going to give these people a try for building supplies.......MOTION RC

i

**944_Jim** Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:21 pm

Now I feel old.

HalfaDave Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:00 pm

Hi CP,

Houses around here are wrapped with Tyvec.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyvek
Like paper, but plastic.
Tough and light. Can glue it.
Floppier than a floppy disk. (Please, no 'That's what she said last night' jokes. Very Happy

)
I have seen it used in open r/c combat to cover foam wings.
$10 cash to a crew installing it will get you a lifetime supply.

Talking to Kieth was very cool. Really great build thread on StuntHanger. Seeing the 190 in person was jaw dropping.
I got inspired. I figure if I double or tripple it's weight, I will have a good flying 1/2A cl plane.

I am sketching up a Steve Wooley 'Cobra'. Working on how to get the wheepants LG to drop off after takeoff...

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

TD ABUSER Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:48 pm

HalfaDave wrote:Hi CP,

Houses around here are wrapped with Tyvec.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyvek
Like paper, but plastic.
Tough and light. Can glue it.
Floppier than a floppy disk. (Please, no 'That's what she said last night' jokes. )
I have seen it used in open r/c combat to cover foam wings.
$10 cash to a crew installing it will get you a lifetime supply.

Talking to Kieth was very cool. Really great build thread on StuntHanger. Seeing the 190 in person was jaw dropping.
I got inspired. I figure if I double or tripple it's weight, I will have a good flying 1/2A cl plane.

I am sketching up a Steve Wooley 'Cobra'. Working on how to get the wheepants LG to drop off after takeoff...

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

Dave I still have a lot of Tyvek left over from building my house 30 years ago.....and thought about using it..but it would probably take 3 or 4 layers of that stuff to keep it from being too floppy.
It would definitely never wear out.

**944_Jim** Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:43 pm

No such thing as too floppy. If the controls are easy to operate, then the plane stands a better chance of surviving light lines.

TD ABUSER Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:57 pm

944_Jim wrote:No such thing as too floppy.

If the hinge material allows UP and DOWN movement instead of SMOOTH SLOP FREE PIVOT FROM A SINGLE PIVOT POINT...then it's too sloppy for me.

**944_Jim** Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:53 am

TD A,

My comment was with respect to properly installed hinges (of any type). You want as little binding as possible so the lines/bellcranks see-saw easily. I had a plane with a stiff tail (uh, it'll loosen up)...until wind-caused loose lines and a minimally responsive elevator chose to land the plane for the last time.

Sewn hinges sewn right won't flippity-floppity incorrectly. Neither will CA hinges nor really flippity-floppity floppy disk ones. The last two require a smidge of offset or beveling of the mating edges (hint: cut slots before bevelling). "Floppy disk" CA hinges are a lot more flexible than the typical RC -purposed CA hinges.

I come across floppy disks from time to time, so if you want to sample, let me know by PM. We.can trade samples, as I would love to try Tyvek again. My last try was using USPS "Tyvek-like" envelope material. Glueing the material was difficult, and ~~doing~~ painting it was worse. Maybe USPS treats their source material...I dunno.

TD ABUSER Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:25 pm

944_Jim wrote:TD A,

wind-caused loose lines and a minimally responsive elevator chose to land the plane for the last time.

There are basically 3 types of 1/2A Control Line Flyers....
1. Those who have crashed before
2. Those who are destined to crash any day now
3. Those who are crashing right now

TD ABUSER Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:15 am

Here's a little progress and a little damage control.
I accidentally hit the original bellcrank with a drop of super glue...making it useless.
After a short temper tantrum I made a new one outta .060" aluminum...because it's what I had laying around. It pivots on a 1/8" diameter aluminum rod axle.
The molded 1/16" balsa fuselage was very easy to make. I lined the interior with a 2nd layer of 1/16" balsa from stem to stern.
The firewall is [so far 1/16" plywood backed with 1/4" balsa.
The fuselage weighs 1 ounce...but I'll add another layer of 1/16" plywood to the firewall where the plastic engine mount gets attached with #2 sheetmetal screws.

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL - Page 2 Rumani15

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL - Page 2 Rumani17

HalfaDave Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:28 pm

Hi CP,

Looking great...
1oz fuse that is 1/8 thick? Nice ! Smile

Must have been hard to carve that baseball bat mold out of it... Very Happy

Nice job at 're-belcranking'... Cool

Here is my 'spill' story,
Dad and I were soldering my (walkytalky type) Heathkit first radio, on the kitchen table.
I tugged the iron cord and a full glass of milk spilled, right over what I was about to solder. I yelled out.
House goes into Defcon3, spilt kitchen milk. How much? How can we contain it? The humanity !
Meanwhile, Dad had grabbed what I was about to solder, rinced it off in the handy sink, and dried it off on the handy toaster.
Things settled down when my 6yr old sister said, 'This is why we need a Cat !' She named it Sparky...

I am enjoying this thread,
Thanks,
Dave

TD ABUSER Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:26 pm

Howdy Dave.....a walkie talkie kit would have been great fun to use after you were done.
Yep..that baseball bat is some tough wood. We don't have much natural / native hard wood in the PNW. We have maple but I doubt it is as good as where it grows in New England.
I made a trip recently to the welding supply and they just gave me a few sticks of aluminum rod [since they usually sell it by the pound] I had my pliers with me to do a test bend in each rod to make sure it was a bendable alloy.
Next step is to try threading some of it for a nylon clevis....but I'm not afraid to use those EZ CONNECTOR type fittings at the elevator control horn. They look kind of scary but I've used them with 1/2A RC planes.

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL - Page 2 S-l50010

TD ABUSER Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:30 pm

TD ABUSER wrote:Howdy Dave.....a walkie talkie kit would have been great fun to use after you were done.
Yep..that baseball bat is some tough wood. We don't have much natural / native hard wood in the PNW. We have maple but I doubt it is as good as where it grows in New England.
I made a trip recently to the welding supply to stock up on 1/2A control linkage and they just gave me a few sticks of aluminum rod [since they usually sell it by the pound] I had my pliers with me to do a test bend in each rod to make sure it was a bendable alloy.
Next step is to try threading some of it for a nylon clevis....but I'm not afraid to use those EZ CONNECTOR type fittings at the elevator control horn. They look kind of scary but I've used them with 1/2A RC planes.

HalfaDave Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:36 am

Hi CP,

I can get that 1/16th al. rod around here. Thanks.
The kit/hobbyshop steel flap or elevator joiners have been next to impossible to 'tweak' for me. (.25-.35)

There is very light electric r/c control links, close to 1/2A size...

This is why I like this CEF forum,
We all learn....
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

TD ABUSER Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:41 am

[quote="HalfaDave]
The kit/hobbyshop steel flap or elevator joiners have been next to impossible to 'tweak' for me. (.25-.35)

[/quote]
Here's my recipe for home made .40 size / 200 mph joiners
1/8" copper coated welding rod
1/16" brass sheet
High silver content brazing rod [this rod is copper color, about 1/8" wide and 1/16" thick...it works with a propane torch]...$7 for a 18" long stick
Stay-Silv white brazing flux...1/2 pound jar....$7
slip fit brass or aluminum tubing for the bearings.
.071" drill bit for your clevis holes.

TD ABUSER Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:25 pm

Today was Engine Test Lab Day at the Rumanian Fighter Plane Factory.
I love it when old stuff still works.
The engine is brand new but the fuel is 20 year old Dr Diesel 1/2A Blend.
I assumed that it was 0% ether after sitting in a wood shed for 20 years so I added John Deere starting fluid to the mix.
I soldered up the fuel tank last night out of .005" brass sheet and used 1/8" brass tubing for the plumbing. The tank might be extremely ugly but it works.
Oh yeah...ye olde Weller soldering gun had it's tip go bad so I used a 7 inch long hunk of #10 copper wire to serve as a replacement element.
The old solder was corroded so I wiped the corrosion off with fine sandpaper before using it.
That damn tygon tubing is some really grabby stuff..once you slip it over the brass spray bar nipple it does not want to come back off..[and it is properly sized here]
If memory serves correctly I think I used to use black neoprene for diesel ...?
I'm going to end up breaking this plane just trying to get the tygon tubing pulled off the engine during fueling.

OH..the little engine ran nice and steady [and cool] with a 6.3 x 4 APC at 10,900 and the 1 oz tank ran forever. I used this prop for break in because it's a beefy prop that would survive the abuse of the first clumsy test session. Now that the engine is dialed in I'll try it with an actual 1/2A prop like a Cox 6 x 3 and see if it will hand start..
Here's a photo of my very sophisticated Propulsion Laboratory....

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL - Page 2 Paw_0410

Ken Cook Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:32 am

I use regular silicone tubing for diesel. It works long enough and then begins to swell and then I switch it out. Diesel really craps up my syringes making the plunger swell and fall off so my son just ordered a few which are supposed to stand up to the diesel fuel. The APC 6.3x4 was my prop choice for .15 combat. I use them on Norvel AME .15's.

TD ABUSER Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:52 am

Ken Cook wrote:I use regular silicone tubing for diesel. It works long enough and then begins to swell and then I switch it out. Diesel really craps up my syringes making the plunger swell and fall off so my son just ordered a few which are supposed to stand up to the diesel fuel. The APC 6.3x4 was my prop choice for .15 combat. I use them on Norvel AME .15's.

Thanks Ken...being able to use silicone is good news. Ever seen or used 1/8" neoprene...?
My Zalp .15 does about 90 mph with the 6.3 x 4 on a combat type model.
APC is right on top of everything...an amazing feat considering how often things change.
I imagine a diesel fuel proof syringe is a chemistry lab type tool...whereas the usual syringes we use are veterinary.

aspeed Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:44 am

I found a roll of black rubber tubing at a garage sale that is about 1/8". It was used for windshield washer squirters. I have used it on glow motors for many years, and I imagine it is the same stuff as neoprene. I have seen a lot of diesel guys use a yellow plastic squeeze bottle to fill their tanks. I bet they are 50 years old because I remember using them way back then. A syringe may not be the answer unless you need a bladder which I doubt would work well. I have seen some syringes with no rubber, just an interference fit inside the housing that seals good enough. The team race guys use a rubber bulb to pump up the fuel can with air pressure and open a valve to let it in the tank, but that is a bit much.

Ken Cook Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:14 pm

I should've mentioned that I was using the pink fuel tubing and I would say it was the last of my Prather tubing. Now rightfully so, it's the wrong stuff to use but I was using it anyway. It did swell where it meets the tank and also the spraybar nipple. The blue Dubro stuff is complete crap even with glow fuel.

TD ABUSER Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:08 pm

Ken Cook wrote: I should've mentioned that I was using the pink fuel tubing and I would say it was the last of my Prather tubing. Now rightfully so, it's the wrong stuff to use but I was using it anyway. It did swell where it meets the tank and also the spraybar nipple. The blue Dubro stuff is complete crap even with glow fuel.

Thanks again Ken.
My all time favorite plumbing stuff for 1/2A glow was Sullivan small silicone tubing and those Hayes 1 oz and 2 oz plastic tanks.
I was worried about the silicone "sloughing off" as diesel fuel flows through it...but if it did it might act like lead did in leaded gasoline.... Very Happy

TD ABUSER Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:19 pm

aspeed wrote:I found a roll of black rubber tubing at a garage sale that is about 1/8". It was used for windshield washer squirters. I have used it on glow motors for many years, and I imagine it is the same stuff as neoprene. I have seen a lot of diesel guys use a yellow plastic squeeze bottle to fill their tanks. I bet they are 50 years old because I remember using them way back then. A syringe may not be the answer unless you need a bladder which I doubt would work well. I have seen some syringes with no rubber, just an interference fit inside the housing that seals good enough. The team race guys use a rubber bulb to pump up the fuel can with air pressure and open a valve to let it in the tank, but that is a bit much.

When I flew PAW .15 British Diesel Combat the guy who organized our club also supplied us with all the field equipment to make life easier. this was great of him....but years later it's amazing how helpless I am since I have no idea where to go to replace some of the field gear he gave us.
For example, for fueling the planes he gave each of us a plastic squeeze bottle that had a built in nipple that was just the right size.
Mel Lyne was the guy who organized this event and he actually "recused" himself [I think that is the proper term] from entering these contests that he ran because he didn't want to dominate them and end up killing interest in the sport. My guess is he had to drive a 4 hour round trip and suffer through a border crossing each way in order to run our contests.

TD ABUSER Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:46 am

Another Saturday at the Rumanian Fighter Plane Factory comes and goes.
We were out of Rumanian fighter canopies..so we used this canopy from a downed Bulgarian Fighter.
At this point the CG is at 14% and the plane weighs 9 ozs.
I'll move the fin / rudder aft a bit..not just to shift the CG aft but to make the plane look a little more scale.
It still needs an elevator push rod, a cowl, some spackle, dope, silkspan and however many pennies glued here and there to make it flyable. If it's going to need a ridiculous amount of weight added to the tail to move the CG back to something in the low 20% range..then maybe the engine needs to move back. I wont worry about it until after the plane is closer to being done.
I'm leaving the rounded wing tips off for now until I establish the leadout position.
Speaking of leadouts I received a package of double flared eyelets from a C/L supplier and the eyelets looked way too wide. A little voice told me to terminate the leadouts with them anyway and then crush them flat in a smooth jawed vise.
this works perfectly.
The downside is there's no way to recycle these eyelets to another plane once they've been crushed as nicely as I did them... H^^

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL - Page 2 Rumani18

TD ABUSER Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:18 pm

The cowl...here is a most excellent cowl that we meticulously formed out of a very exotic material known as Alclad Aluminum...because at the Rumanian Fighter Plane Factory we spare no expense....ever..!!

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL - Page 2 Rumani20

aspeed Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:54 pm

Hope you got the Bud Light to save weight.

TD ABUSER Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:44 pm

aspeed wrote:Hope you got the Bud Light to save weight.

Why didn't I think of that...
I could have built the entire plane with 9 or 10 cans total...!
I think a little SHOE GOOP or WELDWOOD contact adhesive would bond the aluminum panels together .
3M makes a professional grade body panel adhesive but it's really expensive and once you open it you got to have all your ducks in a row because the clock is ticking before it starts to thicken.
This cowl is virtually weightless..which is what I needed with a nose heavy plane.
I used a disk sander to rub the bottom of the can until the inner disk fell away and left the opening.
Cuticle scissors and a small sanding drum to make the opening for the cylinder.

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PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL