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Post  WingingIt74 Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:34 am

Why would you use a reverse spring and reverse rotation "LH" prop? Just to be clear, this is not a pusher engine, it's a tractor. Does anyone have dimensions of a postage stamp mount, wanting to make one since I can't find one? Any one have a good picture of one? I've also never seen a silver rubber spinner either. I also did notice the throttle return spring is in the wrong hole, I fixed that Smile
Odd Ball Engine... Img_2020


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Post  Kim Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:45 am

Yo Travis !

If someone doesn't do it sooner, I can get you some close-up photos of a postage stamp mount later this evening !

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Post  WingingIt74 Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:41 am

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Post  WingingIt74 Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:01 am

I swear I've seen something that looks really close to it in my shop..... not an actual mount though. I'll have to keep my eyes out. I'm going to try to get my Jeep back together this week, so I'll be working in the shop Smile
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:52 am

Any idea why you would want a reverse rotation tractor engine? Flying the circle backwards?
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Post  PV Pilot Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:08 pm

In the Dannel-Sitter book, it shows the throttle spring in the other hole of the ring, but I guess it all depends on where your exhaust ports line up in relation to the ring.

Maybe someone did a speedy assembly before they put it up for sale and got it wrong.
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Post  66 Malibu Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:10 pm

Several years ago, I saw a small Cox RTF plane(I think it was the small Piper Commanche) that had a straight rudder and the product engine was LH or reverse rotation. Of course the prop was also LH. It flew the normal C/L CCW rotation. Have seen more since but didn't pay enough attention to look at the rudder or prop. I never flew one but maybe the LH rotation offsets the normal rudder C/L setting.....
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

PV Pilot wrote:In the Dannel-Sitter book, it shows the throttle spring in the other hole of the ring, but I guess it all depends on where your exhaust ports line up in relation to the ring.

Maybe someone did a speedy assembly before they put it up for sale and got it wrong.

I moved it to the other hole, just didn't update the pic. There would be no way to control it, as shown, unless it was a half of a twin engine plane.
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:20 pm

66 Malibu wrote:Several years ago, I saw a small Cox RTF plane(I think it was the small Piper Commanche) that had a straight rudder and the product engine was LH or reverse rotation. Of course the prop was also LH. It flew the normal C/L CCW rotation. Have seen more since but didn't pay enough attention to look at the rudder or prop. I never flew one but maybe the LH rotation offsets the normal rudder C/L setting.....

When thinking about that, wouldn't the torque tend to roll it towards the center of the circle instead of away from it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems bad...
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Post  66 Malibu Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:29 pm

What you say sounds right to me too, but as I mentioned, I have never flown a LH rotation C/L engine combo so I don't know. I have some LH rotation Kirn Kraft trick orange props that I got from an old time mouse racer's son that were pretty popular racing props for reed valve racing engines. Maybe someone could shed some more light. I'd like to know too....
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Post  PV Pilot Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:34 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:
66 Malibu wrote:Several years ago, I saw a small Cox RTF plane(I think it was the small Piper Commanche) that had a straight rudder and the product engine was LH or reverse rotation. Of course the prop was also LH. It flew the normal C/L CCW rotation. Have seen more since but didn't pay enough attention to look at the rudder or prop. I never flew one but maybe the LH rotation offsets the normal rudder C/L setting.....

When thinking about that, wouldn't the torque tend to roll it towards the center of the circle instead of away from it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems bad...

Seems like you would have to have serious rudder deflection, or run around in big sweeping circles like a madman towing the thing, to stay ahead of slack lines.

Very Odd.
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Post  Mudhen Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:04 pm

.


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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:08 pm

The spinner is rubber, not nylon, like the smaller red and black ones. Thanks Mud for the reply, very informative.
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:16 pm

Odd Ball Engine... Sears-wishbook-1969-cox-corsair-boat-buggy
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:20 pm

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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:23 pm

Here is a silver spinner on the regular Corsair.

Odd Ball Engine... $(KGrHqN,!k8E9HKp!)R+BP(RVuC,0w~~60_1
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:26 pm

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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:39 pm

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Post  ahrma_581 Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:24 pm

PV Pilot wrote:
WingingIt74 wrote:
66 Malibu wrote:Several years ago, I saw a small Cox RTF plane(I think it was the small Piper Commanche) that had a straight rudder and the product engine was LH or reverse rotation. Of course the prop was also LH. It flew the normal C/L CCW rotation. Have seen more since but didn't pay enough attention to look at the rudder or prop. I never flew one but maybe the LH rotation offsets the normal rudder C/L setting.....

When thinking about that, wouldn't the torque tend to roll it towards the center of the circle instead of away from it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems bad...

Seems like you would have to have serious rudder deflection, or run around in big sweeping circles like a madman towing the thing, to stay ahead of slack lines.

Very Odd.

I believe the engine torque would tend to roll the plane to the outside of the circle, so the RTF planes appear to not have or need any rudder deflection (unlike a typical cl plane). Maybe Cox did this so that the throttled version wouldn't yaw as much. Or maybe they just wanted to use up a bunch of pusher props?? Smile
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:33 pm

Engine torque is the same direction as the prop rotation, am I not correct?
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Post  ahrma_581 Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Nup, the engine (when running) tries to rotate (revolve?) in the direction opposite to the propeller. It feels like they both go in the same direction when you are just flipping the prop over with your finger, but that is because compression offers more/equal resistance compared to power stroke when the engine isn't running.

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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:14 pm

You are correct sir, I was wrong, see here:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/dynamics/q0015a.shtml
Odd Ball Engine... Induced-roll

Basically, if you hold the prop, which way will the fuselage turn.
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:22 pm

This poses an interesting question, do CL race planes have a LH prop? I would think it would be more desirable to use natural forces. That would also tend to be the reason why LH prop planes do not have right rudder built in, which PV Pilot mentioned earlier.
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Post  nitroairplane Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:35 pm

I am sure there is a reason that most engine run anti clockwise.
Maybe they naturally run faster in RH operation.
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Post  WingingIt74 Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:42 pm

nitroairplane wrote:I am sure there is a reason that most engine run anti clockwise.
Maybe they naturally run faster in RH operation.

Maybe it depends on which side of the Equator lol!
Odd Ball Engine... Coriolis_effect14
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