Shoestring flights - I brought it home! Now, can I do it again?

Sorry for the wait. The movie is saving now, and will then be uploaded to the Tube.

On my first flight the engine pooted the muffler tip off. It went from purring to screaming, and the plane sped up. One of the chopper techs saw me walking the circle and came to help me look for it. He found it way outside of the circle. I thought the dang thing was pressed on, but it's screwed on. Now it has some light plier marks, but I can polish them out.

My second and third flights were pretty good, but I didn't do an OH8. My horizontals were better, but the one in the video was botched. I tried it again but the lines got loose and I bailed. I was launching as rich as I could and still be able to get to the handle before it put out the fire. If I had a pit man, I could set it richer and have him keep it going by pinching the line while I walk out. If that doesn't work, I'll try a 9x4, but everything I know about props says that will only be faster. As it was, the engine was a little too lean in flight. I have the old 61' lines, but they aren't in top shape, so I hope I don't have to resort to those to help slow it. I feel like I could do better shapes if it was about 4.8 or 5 seconds, but i was much more comfortable today and the ground only snuck up on me once, but I managed to barely miss it.

This video was my fourth and last flight today. Some of the stunts had looked better earlier, some not so much. It's still flying at about 4.36 seconds, but that's better than Thursday's 3.9 or whatever it was. I would liked to have swapped props, but it was too hot and stooging is hard work for me, so I did four flights and then just watched the Apache crew work. They even borrowed a 7/8" socket and a 15" breaker bar from me. My socket worked on a war bird!

Okay, the video is crunched. I'm off to upload it now.

Rusty

Here's where the video will be at about 11:35pm EDT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TSXY_PZHx4&feature=youtu.be

Sounds like you got some good practice in. The one thing that concerns me is you having to richen the engine so much. Is it leaning out in the air? How is your line tension with the engine lugging like that?

Of course I am not there to see what you are having to deal with.

I'll watch the video in the AM. It may answer my questions!

Ron

It was leaning out in the air. Like I mentioned, if I had a human launcher I could run it richer since he could give the line a couple of pinches while I walk to the handle. But that wasn't possible today.
The video is live now.

I couldn't wait. Decided to watch it now.

Ok.....something is not right. You and the plane are flying well however, you are losing speed and tension and having to abort because of it. I haven't flown anything, but a Fox however, your engine should be picking up speed while stunting and not slowing down. It's really laboring and especially so during consecutive maneuvers.

I have seen Enya's and OS engines at work and even though they don't 4-2 like a Fox they still rev up when stunting.

Here is my take, bolt on your Fox...  just kidding, seriously though if it were me I would prop/tune that engine so it pulls hard and who gives a crap about the lap time. You don't get penalized for speed and it will still fly slower than 1/2A which you can already handle.

Come contest day you want tension so you have the confidence to do the stunts. You only have one run that you can dismiss.

Sorry if that seemed negative, it was a great video, I just want you to have a good strong run on the big day.

Later Rusty!

Ron

Maybe today it was trying to swing more lumber than it likes. I'm going to try the MA 9x4. It's one of the new narrow ones, maybe it's so inefficient it'll fly slower. I flew a TF 10x4 a couple of weeks ago and it was also too fast, but not bogging in the loops. And I think that was on 58' lines, so that still needs another look since I'm flying on 60' now. I don't think my minor repairs have introduced any flyability problems because the regular outside and inside loops stay tight until the last loop when the engine slows, and even when I did those lazy 8s late in the video flight it didn't slack too much. I don't really remember why I aborted the second square. I have around 2 or 3 degrees of thrust offset.

Wayne and I met out at the Fort at 10:00. He had his Cardinal and another one I never can remember the name of with a thunder Tiger .40 that looks just like my .25. He thought it was an ST before I recognized it. He's practicing the advanced pattern now, and getting pretty good at it except for one quirk where it likes to come in on the last loop of the clover and the top of the hourglass. We had an 8 mph breeze with gusts. I'm learning that the wind can be my friend, but sometimes I still get a brain fart and enter stunts slightly out of place.

I concluded after last time, no 10" prop is going to get me slow enough, so I started out with a new MA GF series narrow 9x4 and launched rich. Not rich enough though, on the first flight I had to bail on several stunts because it was happening too fast, about 4.2 seconds. I did get all of the attempts, so I would have gotten pattern points, but I need to do better than just trying. After riching it up some more it went much better. I think I flew four flights. The second was successful and I completed all of the stunts except it still coughed lean a few times, and the OH8 was still only an attempt. Set even richer for the third flight, I did a decent job of every stunt. But on the forth loop of the OH8 I lost the handle and was connected only by my safety lanyard. I grabbed it back during the ensuing tightass loops and it cut off and I saved it, landing with a handfull of line in my left hand. No blood, and I did actually land it in a bumpy sort of way, but it didn't nose over. So Pattern points for that.

We broke for lunch and a "classroom session" and launched it again. One more tweak richer and it was at a comfortable mid 4 second pace. The takeoff reached level height a tad early, but I did roll out the required distance. The engine was breaking lean in the stunts and burbling slightly wet in the flats. I did every stunt fairly well with no slack, and placed them all in the right spots. The OH8 was pretty good except the first loop was a little tight, but it stayed up there and I flew through it with wide loops for the next three and exited wingover style in just the right place. about 5 laps later the engine cut as I was holding at about 50-60 degrees and I coasted in for a respectable landing. Wayne ran over and gave me a hand shake. That was good.

I think I can start repeating this now. I might go back to 10% nitro to see if that slows it down some more. If it's still in the mid 4 second range, I also might find a muffler that has some back pressure. The one i have now is gutted with no baffles. All in all, this was what I would call a success. Not having such drastic engine trim problems made it a whole lot easier to get my head into flying. The 75 degree temps helped a bunch too.

I was excited in my last report because I didn't pancake it and I got all the attempts in. This feeling is a lot less hollow, I feel like success is here now. All I need to do is keep flying as frequently as possible.

I had forgotten about the Baby Streak in the car when Wayne said, lemme see you fly the 1/2A. I just fixed it up last night for this Saturday's fun fly in Huntersville, NC. So I ripped off a good 2 ouncer. What a rush. Those things are just raw fun. Wayne resisted but finally accepted my offer to let him fly. He hasn't flown a 3 second plane in decades, so I put 3/4oz in it and he took off. Sumbitch flew better than me and ripped off a passable beginner pattern, though the squares were unidentifiable and the wind blew the OH of the top, but judging by his staggering grin, I think he enjoyed it.

That concludes today's flight report.

Rusty

Feel like cutting up that APC 10x3 and making it a 9x3?

Sounds like you are out there DOING it.

Phil

pkrankow wrote:Feel like cutting up that APC 10x3 and making it a 9x3?

Sounds like you are out there DOING it.

Phil

Now that's a great idea, forgot about the APC in the drawer. Thanks for the reminder.
Yep, I really did it. My confidence took a much needed boost and my frustration abated too. I just needed some trim and am finally getting there. The club President in Huntersville, NC told me to bring the Shoestring to the 1/2A fun fly this weekend and he'd help me with my pattern flying too.

EDIT: I forgot, I busted my APC 10x3. I can get another one. No one else seems to make a 3" pitch prop in 9" or 10" length.

Rusty... I have x2 old Top-Flight 10 x 3.5 nylon props in my stock. I will mail them both to you if you'd like. I'd feel lousy; knowing I had a prop that you couldn't find... to help you compete. Let me know if you want them.

Roger

Thanks, Roger. PM sent.

Sounds like a good day Rusty, by the time the contest rolls around you should be set!

Hi Rusty,

Your learning curve (like most of us) has peaks and valleys, but as long as it continues to move up your good.

More thoughts from the peanut gallery:

If you can find wood props you might lean toward them, safer, easier to balance and easier to trim down.
Remember pitch is an average of that prop and if you cut it down the pitch goes up.

Castor and nitro changes will affect the break, more caster and lower nitro might help it from running away as well as a extra head gasket.

Are you keeping track of RPM launch settings? Get a little notebook, if you start experimenting you can check your notes and get back to what you had.

Hey Rusty, Here's an ebay link to some NOS Top-Flight "WOOD" 10 x 3.5's... a whole box of 12 for $10.00 as of this posting.

edit: Like Mark B. stated; the wood props might be worth it, going forward. If this size works out... you'd have plenty to practice with, before competition time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-9-new-Top-Flite-Propellers-store-package-NOS-10-3-1-2-size-/181220825729?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a319a5a81

Admin wrote:I can run up to Hub Hobby to see if they have any 9x3 props. You know, its basically a straight shot up the road from me.

Hey Jacob,

Could you see if Hub has 5-6" x2.5 props?

Mark Boesen wrote:If you can find wood props you might lean toward them, safer, easier to balance and easier to trim down. Remember pitch is an average of that prop and if you cut it down the pitch goes up.

Castor and nitro changes will affect the break, more caster and lower nitro might help it from running away as well as a extra head gasket.

Are you keeping track of RPM launch settings? Get a little notebook, if you start experimenting you can check your notes and get back to what you had.

Hi Mark. She likes to run away with the woodys more than the plastic props, but I do have a couple in my box that I have yet to try. With the TF Power Point 10x4 I set it so slobbery my pit man had to pinch the line until I took off and then it leaned out again full speed. Roddie sent me a couple of nylon TF 10x3.5s and I'll try those this Saturday. I'll be surrounded by "experts" for the first time ever that day at a fun-fly in NC. What I know about changing diameter and pitch in 1/2A doesn't always follow with the big plane.

I'm running 15%/22% fuel now, and trying 10% nitro is next on my list before changing anything. Hopefully I can borrow a tankfull of 10% from someone at the fun-fly.

When I first started flying the SS I kept close track of my RPMs. The past couple of times out, since I wasn't even close to the right speed I was just trying a prop and setting it as rich as it would run. Tuesday when I was getting back to a good run, I neglected to get the tach and see where it was. No kidding, my first thought was. "Aw man, I bet Mark's gonna want to know if I tached it." 
I will definitely take it to the fly-in this Saturday. I want to know, so when I do peg it, I can duplicate it under any conditions.

roddie wrote:Hey Rusty, Here's an ebay link to some NOS Top-Flight "WOOD" 10 x 3.5's... a whole box of 12 for $10.00 as of this posting.

edit: Like Mark B. stated; the wood props might be worth it, going forward. If this size works out... you'd have plenty to practice with, before competition time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-9-new-Top-Flite-Propellers-store-package-NOS-10-3-1-2-size-/181220825729?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a319a5a81

Thanks, Roddie, it's in my watch list. I may let it go considering my past experiences with woodys though. I do have hope for those Nylon 10x3.5s you sent me, even if I cut them to 9". See, that's one example of how this is different from 1/2A. I would never expect to slow a plane down by cutting the prop. That's what happened when I went back down to 9" and it made for much better flying without leaning out or bogging. Maybe 10 is too much for the TT. The literature on this engine says 9x4 and 9x5 is the recommended prop, but that's also for its intended RC use.

Admin wrote:I can run up to Hub Hobby to see if they have any 9x3 props. You know, its basically a straight shot up the road from me.

Thanks, Jacob. Lets see what happens with what I do next. If I need to take you up on the offer, they'll probably still have them.

Thanks for the input, guys.

Hey Rusty,

Have you considered adding another head gasket? I hear that keeps the running away in check.

Ron

I think I'll make one for it just to see what happens. This engine does have a lot of compression. Sort of like that Fox Stunt .35. I'll see how thick the one in it is. I bet a beer can is thicker, that should make a good one. The original one is aluminum too. I'm close now. So close that I could compete with it like it is if I had to. But I think between fuel, compression and/or another prop I'll be good to go. And I can do the whole pattern now.

Wayne told me to be prepared for his buddy Will in NC, to overwhelm me with advice and help Saturday. He's been hearing about me from Wayne and wants to get in on this project. He made me a sweet set of 60' lines not too long ago. Will is also the CD for the October contest. He and a number of other guys from stunthangar.com will be there Saturday. Unfortunately Wayne has to be in Clemson to do the fireworks for Saturday's football game, so he won't attend, but he will be competing in October.

I'm hoping all the best for you Rusty! Unfortunately for me life is getting in the way. I have to be on call this week among many other things so I cannot be in Tulsa this weekend. I am beyond upset about it and I feel I have let the guys down who have been helping me.

On the upside the forecast for Tulsa this weekend is windy and rain. Not that I wish that on the other competitors, but if it's washed out I will feel less upset about not being able to make it.

It's probably just as well seeing as I have work to do on my OH8 still. I'll stop whining all over your thread now  

Ah, the Tulsa guys will understand. I know you're disappointed.

The hardest thing for me to learn with the OH8 was to stand with my feet planted while the plane flies over my head, bending my knees so I can arch back to watch it before starting the turn. It's almost out of sight for a moment there, and I had to resist the urge to begin the turn too soon. I turned so soon and tight the first couple of times, it literally fell out of the sky. It has to have the energy from coasting down the back side to keep it tight when you make the turn. It has almost no energy at the very top of the entry wingover. Remember, this is coming from someone who has only successfully done it twice. On the other hand, I have only tried it a handfull of times, so it's not all that hard, it just takes some nerve to fly through it.

If your gonna use those nylon props be sure to bring to boil then simmer props for 1/2 hour or so.
I can't remember what prop you were running when you were pretty close to dialing it in? Di you ever go back to it?
I like the idea of those wood Top Flite 10x3.5 props, that might make a great set up. I also really think another head gasket might be good.