Re: Enya .09 II Questions

GallopingGhostler Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:23 pm

Bob, the first engine in your photos is an Enya .09-III. It has the spring steel venturi insert. I guess Enya provided that to provide bullet-proof fuel suction.

2nd, looks like you have an early .09-IV TV. AFAIK, it was an III mirrored with right hand exhaust. Plus, it is possible that Enya made further refinements to its carburetor, as now dropped the bottom end 7x6 prop to a 7x5 and 8x4 to an 8x3 for RC use. But, Enya specs still show same HP and RPM's. That's what made me think perhaps some carb changes occurred, but this is pure speculation on my part. I don't have a IV to compare with.

sosam117 wrote:Yes, I know of the bore and strokes of the .09 engines. If you are rounding up the numbers it is a "square" engine. If you don't then not exactly a "square" engine. Sometimes you'll see the bore and stroke the same at .500 inches.

Example of exact bore/stroke:

.09 model #3001 = bore:.496 / stroke .498
.09-II = bore: .500 / stroke: .498
.09-III = bore: .512 / stroke: .480
.09-IV and Quicky .09 = bore: .512 / stroke .480

Actual bore/stroke dimensions are from engine test/reviews.

They match my numbers from the Enya instructions manual. So, basically still a squared engine because both measurements are close enough - TLAR (That Looks About Right). Wink

rdw777 Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:19 pm

rsv1cox wrote: But I did run across these photos that you might get a kick out of.

Thanks for the photos Bob, Inspiring!!…. Only thing, My Work Mate is not as nice as yours!! LOL!!!…. No worries on the needle, I messaged a seller on the bay now that I have more info and a part# Mike provided…. Seems to be a fair number of parts available so we’ll find one sooner or later ….. These have generated a surprising amount of replies on this thread,… Great!!… Thanks!!!

Robert

Greenman38633 Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:21 pm

Mike. This particular engine has “BB” stamped on the front housing. So that’s Good News. As far as having a better muffler for it is concerned that would be great. But in Lee of that I am thinking that leaving the exhaust priming port open should reduce the restriction that this muffler creates. But if anyone has the better muffler for this then let me know. Thanks. Mark

Greenman38633 Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:40 pm

Thanks Mike and Galloping Gossler for the valuable info. I have a file for each engine and plane that I own. I keep good notes

rdw777 Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:12 am

I found and ordered a needle with the help of the part# provided, Also a couple of Master Airscrew props, 7-4, 7-6… Thanks Mike, George, All, for information provided…. We’ll give
‘er a try soon Thumbs Up

Robert

sosam117 Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:17 am

Greenman38633 wrote:Mike. This particular engine has “BB” stamped on the front housing. So that’s Good News. As far as having a better muffler for it is concerned that would be great. But in Lee of that I am thinking that leaving the exhaust priming port open should reduce the restriction that this muffler creates. But if anyone has the better muffler for this then let me know. Thanks. Mark

Robert,
It's good to know that you have the BB engine.
Though it is slightly heavier than the plain bearing, it gives out a little more power too.

As for the muffler. Trying to get the "old" mufflers for it (Enya stock numbers: M120 and M153) are trying to find hens teeth.
I could keep an eye out for you and try to get one, but it might be a while and pricey?

Robert,
Another thing you could do is to order the Enya stock #M154 muffler from shtterman

Info for Bob Brooks:
shtterman@aol.com
phone: 954-234-0863

His web page for the muffler (Enya stock # M154)

Enya .09-IV Muffler - Stock #M154

Cick on the link above to go to his web page for this muffler.

Then use the strap from your current Enya .09-III muffler to get the proper muffler volume and strap on the M154 muffler to your engine?

It will be just like the old Enya stock #M153 before Enya discontinued that stock number.
You can use the screws that come with the newer muffler as the holes will be the right size on the clamp for them.

See photo below:

Try that out?
I've done that for a few of the .09-III and IV that I could not get "original" mufflers for.
I have made my own straps as well to do it too.

Greenman38633 Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:27 am

Ok. I will give it a try. Thanks

Greenman38633 Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:33 am

Ok purchased. I’ll let you know when I get it and on. Thanks for the heads up

Surfer_kris Wed Apr 17, 2024 1:30 am

It's a pity that they have stopped making the designated .09 muffler. The mufflers depicted above are quite a lot larger and designed for their .15, these were only "adapted" to the .09 by adding an extra row of threaded holes.

rdw777 Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:11 am

I agree Kris, One can get an idea of appropriate size at least for the II version by photos of the after market muffler….

Just curious Mike, It looks like there’s a flat a piece of spring steel with a triangular ring attached near the top of the inlet of the muffler….. Is this a slide to work in conjunction with the throttle?

Edit- I found the thread on this muffler…. Neat little unit Thumbs Up

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t16781-vintage-tiger-muffler-silencer-for-the-enya-09-or-enya-09-ii-engine

sosam117 Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:05 am

Surfer_kris wrote:It's a pity that they have stopped making the designated .09 muffler. The mufflers depicted above are quite a lot larger and designed for their .15, these were only "adapted" to the .09 by adding an extra row of threaded holes.

Yes, I do agree that the current muffler is a little large for the .09 engines and the muffler is a little small for the .19 engine.
But like the 3 bears for the .15 it's just right.

It's like buying a medium size sweatshirt.
The size is just too big for baby brother, for big brother, it's a little too tight, but for the middle brother it fits just right (until it shrinks after the wash?) then it's almost the right size for baby brother.

But the current .09-III muffler that Robert has on has too small of a volume muffler size to have the engine work at its peak RPM.

I have milled the current muffler down on the exhaust section to remove the outer holes for the 15/19 engine (to reduce the size and weight of the muffler) and it looks better than the bulky look it had.
Also, it gives a look of an extended exhaust on the muffler (I think it also looks better?)

Buy the way,
The photo of the muffler above (you have) is a muffler for the diesel engine as it has a priming nipple to inject fuel into the exhaust port.
Though, it can do the same for the glow engine --- but that muffler costs more for having the fuel nipple added.

sosam117 Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:17 am

rdw777 wrote:I agree Kris, One can get an idea of appropriate size at least for the II version by photos of the after market muffler….

Just curious Mike, It looks like there’s a flat a piece of spring steel with a triangular ring attached near the top of the inlet of the muffler….. Is this a slide to work in conjunction with the throttle?

Edit- I found the thread on this muffler…. Neat little unit

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t16781-vintage-tiger-muffler-silencer-for-the-enya-09-or-enya-09-ii-engine

I have no idea what that slide is used for?
The slide uncovers 1/2 of the exhaust stack to the muffler.
There is a tube that is mounted on the side of the muffler to be used for squirting fuel into the cylinder.
So, the slide can really be use for that?

The instruction say that it is an "air hole lid"
Maybe you have the option to have it all the way closed, 1/2 open, or fully opened?
Maybe something to do with adjusting the exhaust back pressure?

Surfer_kris Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:30 am

As noted the previous picture is for the diesel engine, I already had a picture of that on my computer and the only difference is the priming feature, so I though that would be informative enough.

Below is a comparison of the two glow mufflers, the original .09 is on the left (weighting 19g or 0.67oz) and the .15 version on the right (37.2g or 0.96oz). So quite a lot larger and heavier, it also tends to interfere a little with the throttle lever on the RC engine.

Surfer_kris Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:12 am

Below is another comparison with the oversized .15 muffler on an .09 IV engine (on the left) compared to the .09 III engine with its original muffler (at 15g or 0.53oz) to the right.

sosam117 Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:18 pm

The different sizes of Enya mufflers over the years vary just like the Enya engines made.
So many different styles and shapes could be another posting in itself.

And the clamps that could be purchased separately (from Ken Enya --- "if in stock"?)
Or if you lost the original clamp and screws?

Excluding the "domestic" manufacturers that would do mufflers for Enyas.

From:

KNK Model Hobby

Suzuki Mokei Co.

And this muffler that was on an Enya .09-IV engine that I got/purchased from Japan.

Almost forgot about the Tiger muffler:

rdw777 Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:40 pm

Maybe part of muffler design change was due to bore/stroke and power output change as it evolved?
The Tiger muffler is a neat looking little thing… Bling for Enya Thumbs Up

Surfer_kris Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:33 am

There is also a car muffler that works very well, especially in combination with the BB version and small props, it gives a very smooth run and lower noise levels.

HalfaDave Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:14 pm

Hi All,
Every Enya I have run, goes great. Broken in, seem to last forever.
'Stump puller', hauling bigger props, (the BB.45 is an awesome brute !)
And the small simple carbs have awesome throttle response.
My question is:
Why the 'port side rather than starboard' exhaust?
Is there a reason ?
Seems to be more on the .09s somehow.
Thanks CEF !
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

Surfer_kris Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:31 pm

I guess that could stem from the CL origin, and the preferred flight direction in the circle while having the exhaust pointing outwards of the circle. With a regular pitch prop there is a slight advantage in line tension by flying with the port side facing outwards of the circle (with an upright mounted engine).

Surfer_kris Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:45 pm

There is also a "quiet" muffler for the .15, that has now also been made to "fit" the .09 engine, by adding the second row of threaded holes. I think that it is simply too large for the .09 engine (with a weight of 54.2g or 1.9oz) but it works very well on the .11CX Diesel. The lower revs and the softer exhaust note makes for a very pleasant flying experience, and it is one of my favourite Enya engine combos.

sosam117 Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:24 am

Surfer_kris wrote:There is also a "quiet" muffler for the .15, that has now also been made to "fit" the .09 engine, by adding the second row of threaded holes. I think that it is simply too large for the .09 engine (with a weight of 54.2g or 1.9oz) but it works very well on the .11CX Diesel. The lower revs and the softer exhaust note makes for a very pleasant flying experience, and it is one of my favourite Enya engine combos.

Yes kris,
There is the "special" muffler that you mentioned. Enya stock #SM154
It is nothing "NEW" to the .09
And it lists the engines that it will fit up to:

Special muffler for: .09, .11CX, Utra.11CX, 15-V and the SS15
This "special" muffler adds a 50mm section just before the cone section of the muffler to increase the standard volume of the "normal" Enya muffler (stock #M154)

I asked Ken Enya why it was done, and his answer was that the "special" mufflers were designed for the R/C engines as like a somewhat of a tuned pipe and that the "normal" muffler was acceptable for U-control planes.

I have been able to heat up the "special" muffler and unscrew the added section to completely remove it and screw the muffler back together to make a "normal" muffler ----- Just to see "IF" I could do it.
But I wouldn't purchase the more costly "special" muffler to convert it to a cheaper "normal" muffler and Ken Enya will not sell the 50mm section by itself (I tried).

Below are the other normal and "diesel" muffler that will fit different size Enya engines.

Enya muffler (stock #MC154) is used for the Enya "DIESEL" engines as it has a priming nipple on the exhaust stack to inject diesel fuel into the piston chamber (when open).
Though it could be used for a glow engine?

The one Enya muffler (stock #M154) on the bottom is the "normal" stock muffler usually purchased for the Enya engines it is able to fit up to.

And why no "special" quiet muffler for the diesel engine?
Ken didn't think it was needed as the diesel engine runs slower and is quieter than a glow engine.

Surfer_kris Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:53 am

sosam117 wrote:
I asked Ken Enya why it was done, and his answer was that the "special" mufflers were designed for the R/C engines as like a somewhat of a tuned pipe and that the "normal" muffler was acceptable for U-control planes.

That doesn't sound right. The SM muffler have a baffle and this makes them a two chamber muffler instead of a one chamber muffler. This will not give any tuning effect, but it will reduce the sound level as you effectively get two mufflers in series. It also give a better pressure to the tank, compared to a one chamber muffler. OS did a similar change between their .10FSR and the .10FP models. The net result is a softer exhaust note and a better (more stable) idle. The OS .10FP will even idle reliably with the nose of the plane pointed straight up (!). A test that otherwise is only to be done at full throttle.

Surfer_kris Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:59 am

sosam117 wrote:
Enya muffler (stock #MC154) is used for the Enya "DIESEL" engines as it has a priming nipple on the exhaust stack to inject diesel fuel into the piston chamber (when open).

No, you would never prime directly into the cylinder, as that would be very dangerous.
You only prime the side of the piston, and it will give you first flip starts.

sosam117 Fri Apr 19, 2024 1:54 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:
sosam117 wrote:
I asked Ken Enya why it was done, and his answer was that the "special" mufflers were designed for the R/C engines as like a somewhat of a tuned pipe and that the "normal" muffler was acceptable for U-control planes.

That doesn't sound right. The SM muffler have a baffle and this makes them a two chamber muffler instead of a one chamber muffler. This will not give any tuning effect, but it will reduce the sound level as you effectively get two mufflers in series. It also give a better pressure to the tank, compared to a one chamber muffler. OS did a similar change between their .10FSR and the .10FP models. The net result is a softer exhaust note and a better (more stable) idle. The OS .10FP will even idle reliably with the nose of the plane pointed straight up (!). A test that otherwise is only to be done at full throttle.

O.K. I made it simpler than what it is with the "silent" muffler.
In that short section are three pipes -- the two on the outer diameter send the pressure towards the middle tube where there are holes in that center tube to send the gasses out the final hole in the cone of the muffler.

On the other end of the disk holding the three pipes they are crimped/stamped to the disk.
What it looks like on how they did it was to install the outer pipes 1st by crimping them onto the disk.
Then install the center pipe on a long rod inside the pipe (as it is plugged on the end) and press down on that end to mushroom that end to install it and mount it on the disk.

Then install the disk/pipes to the front half of the muffler, then screw the center section into place (with some thread sealant?)
After that, screw the rear cone part of the muffler into place (with thread sealant as well?)

See the photo of the "silent" M154 muffler that I have cleaned up and while cleaning it I was able to unscrew the end cone off.

sosam117 Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:14 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:
sosam117 wrote:
Enya muffler (stock #MC154) is used for the Enya "DIESEL" engines as it has a priming nipple on the exhaust stack to inject diesel fuel into the piston chamber (when open).

No, you would never prime directly into the cylinder, as that would be very dangerous.
You only prime the side of the piston, and it will give you first flip starts.

On the Enya diesels (or any other diesels) I have, I have rarely squirted any fuel into or on the side of the piston.
I usually place my finger over the venturi to suck the fuel into the crankcase and start my diesel that way.
On a rare occasion I have squirted fuel down into the venturi.
I then slowly turn the prop one turn to make sure of no hydraulic lock, then give it a good flip.

When I got my 1st Enya diesel with this "nipple" on the muffler (the Enya 11CXD) I asked Ken Enya what is it for?
Ken Enya told me it was to assist in priming the diesel engines.

As you can see, the small hole is directed to the combustion chamber.

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