Cox International wish list

ideeman1994 wrote:I just wanted to know: what are the parts that are completely remanufactured?

I mean, what is the Cox engines supply depending on? Can we expect to have "current production" surestarts one day?

Current productions SSs would retail for about 40$ or 45$

Well, it would be better than nothing...
I guess the stocks aren't unlimited, so sometime there will be kind of a shortage on new engines...

ideeman1994 wrote:Well, it would be better than nothing...
I guess the stocks aren't unlimited, so sometime there will be kind of a shortage on new engines...

Prices have gone up since they were first released by cox international i think the initial price was 7.99

nitroairplane wrote:

ideeman1994 wrote:Well, it would be better than nothing...
I guess the stocks aren't unlimited, so sometime there will be kind of a shortage on new engines...

Prices have gone up since they were first released by cox international i think the initial price was 7.99

I regret not ordering 50 of them when Estes was selling them for $6.99. I remember I was making a list of how many glow heads I needed, reeds, piston and cylinder assemblies. I think it turned out to be about 12 engines I needed. I added them to my Estes cart and was about to check out but figured I can hold off for a week. I went back to order them a week later and the listing was completely gone for both the sure start and DC engine. I figured it was a glitch so I checked back the next few days. I eventually sent them an email asking them wheres the engines? I got a reply back saying 4 parties of buyers purchased all the parts, engines, accessories and tooling. After reading that, I had 2 thoughts, 1) dammit! 2) Well maybe someone is going to make them again and stop with the Estes crap. So far, Matt and Bernie have been doing much more then what Estes was doing. Eventually the stocks will go down and prices will go up. If they try to make engines, yes the price will be a little bit much for the engine. The problem with that is you can just go on eBay and get a old Babe Bee or even a Black Widow for less. I can see many people doing that instead of paying $50+ for a Sure Start.

In answer to some of the recent questions.

A mould is far more expensive than many people assume. For instance, a basic (commercial-grade) mould for a 6” propeller runs about $8,000. I know because I asked the company that made the moulds for Cox and that was their estimate. And they get them made in China for that price!

A mould is a sophisticated piece of equipment with cooling channels and sensors built in. They operate fully by themselves, once hooked up to the corresponding machine. Here is a picture of a really basic mould (for plastic reed retainers):

http://coxengines.ca/mould.jpg

A mould for a propeller is far more sophisticated as the cooling process has to be better controlled.

As to parts/engine manufacturing, we have manufactured over 80 different parts so far. The difference being that they were either made on existing Cox moulds (no mould cost for us) or were made with CNC machines, screw machines, dies and laser cutters. That is relatively inexpensive.

The listings that state “Current Production” are the parts we made ourselves.

We bought over 35,000 engines from Estes/Cox and it is estimated that we will run out within 3 years. As our competitors are in the same situation, one of two things will happen.

Either Cox engines will no longer be available in reliable quantities or we have to manufacture some. Initial quotes to manufacture them run around $18/each, effectively making for a $40 retail price.

This is the reason we have been upping prices a buck at a time every few moths. We need to get retail pricing to around $40 to even entertain engine manufacturing. And even then, the prospect of fronting $100,000+ for 5,000 engines is not an appealing one.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Admin,

Sorry you missed out there and I concur with what you are stating re used engines.

However, used engines will eventually need new parts. So again, back to manufacturing all the parts for the engines which, in turn, can be made into complete engines.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Okay about the plastic parts, but what about the ones that may get worn quicker, for instance, cylinders and pistons? I guess it's even more expensive to manufacture...

Cox International wrote:In answer to some of the recent questions.

A mould is far more expensive than many people assume. For instance, a basic (commercial-grade) mould for a 6” propeller runs about $8,000. I know because I asked the company that made the moulds for Cox and that was their estimate. And they get them made in China for that price!

A mould is a sophisticated piece of equipment with cooling channels and sensors built in. They operate fully by themselves, once hooked up to the corresponding machine. Here is a picture of a really basic mould (for plastic reed retainers):

http://coxengines.ca/mould.jpg

A mould for a propeller is far more sophisticated as the cooling process has to be better controlled.

As to parts/engine manufacturing, we have manufactured over 80 different parts so far. The difference being that they were either made on existing Cox moulds (no mould cost for us) or were made with CNC machines, screw machines, dies and laser cutters. That is relatively inexpensive.

The listings that state “Current Production” are the parts we made ourselves.

We bought over 35,000 engines from Estes/Cox and it is estimated that we will run out within 3 years. As our competitors are in the same situation, one of two things will happen.

Either Cox engines will no longer be available in reliable quantities or we have to manufacture some. Initial quotes to manufacture them run around $18/each, effectively making for a $40 retail price.

This is the reason we have been upping prices a buck at a time every few moths. We need to get retail pricing to around $40 to even entertain engine manufacturing. And even then, the prospect of fronting $100,000+ for 5,000 engines is not an appealing one.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

I knew i was right. :
Oh wait it doesn't count Matt already told me

Normally, the plastic parts are the expensive ones as moulds have to be made first. In our case it is not so as we have access to the moulds (backplates, reed retainers, needle valve caps and spraybar seals).

The issue is making the metal parts in small quantities (5,000). Glow heads are like $3. Cranks are like $3 as well. Cylinders and pistons are the killer. They will probably run $8 - $10/set. We have manufactured glow heads and cranks but no cylinder/pistons so far.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Out of all the new parts you have made Bernie, which ones have sold the best or moved quickly.

PV Pilot wrote:Out of all the new parts you have made Bernie, which ones have sold the best or moved quickly.

I'd say glowheads because they are expendible and will burn out with time.

Normally, glow heads would move the best but we have not made those for 049 reedies. Only for 020 and Tee Dee 049 (and those move great). That aside:

Propellers
Spinners
Babe Bee needles
Venturi gaskets
Crankcase gaskets
Glow head gaskets
Reeds
Fuel tanks (Integral)
Fuel tank screws
Starter springs
SPI Pistons
Glow plug clips
Battery boxes
Wrenches
And, course, all the head conversions

The above being some of the best sellers of items we had made.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Cox International wrote:Normally, glow heads would move the best but we have not made those for 049 reedies. Only for 020 and Tee Dee 049 (and those move great). That aside:

Propellers
Spinners
Babe Bee needles
Venturi gaskets
Crankcase gaskets
Glow head gaskets
Reeds
Fuel tanks (Integral)
Fuel tank screws
Starter springs
SPI Pistons

Are you making .010 heads?
Glow plug clips
Battery boxes
Wrenches
And, course, all the head conversions

The above being some of the best sellers of items we had made.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Are you making .010 heads?

SuperDave wrote:

Mark Boesen wrote:

I've often thought how well a PT-19 'Kit' (minus engine) would do, sold direct, customer would trim Christmas tree & plastic flash. Shipped in a basic cardboard box?

I'd suspect not very well as young kids today are drawn to other things than model aviation.

It's actually the older element (50 +) that keeps the hobby going. More's the pity.

I was never even considering the youngsters. My thought was how it would appeal to the older bunch, the ones spending the money for ‘hobby’ items in the first place.

We don't need to make 010 heads as we still have plenty OEM Cox stock on those, probably for another 5-8 years.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Cox International wrote:We don't need to make 010 heads as we still have plenty OEM Cox stock on those, probably for another 5-8 years.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Ok then i am wondering about a head insert conversion for the .010 but compression loss would be a serious problem.
as would the altered volume of the head.
I suppose i may experiment with this one day.
If supplies dwindle or become too expensive for me.

FORGETABOUTIT LOL

The 010 will never, ever work with the 1/4" glow plugs or even a flat-coil turbo head. By the time one design and manufactured a new insert with filament you might as well get OEM ones made for $4.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Cox International wrote:FORGETABOUTIT LOL

The 010 will never, ever work with the 1/4" glow plugs or even a flat-coil turbo head. By the time one design and manufactured a new insert with filament you might as well get OEM ones made for $4.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Thats what they said about getting one to go on diesel but its been done.
I know what you mean though.
well ive glow engine smaller than the .010 run on a glowplug button like this one.
http://www.ronald-valentine-engines.com/12_RGM_0.html[strike]

I understand that but what I am saying is that you would have to start from scratch.

By the time you are done the inserts would cost just as much as making the OEM heads, so why not just make the OEM heads? I know what I pay for 049 inserts now and the seller gets them made in batches of 250,000. an 010 insert would cost at least double, therefore exceeding the price of making OEM heads.

We could sell max 200 - 300 of the 010 conversions per year, meaning we would buy 2,000 tops and that's being optimistic. I know how many 010 heads and other parts we sell. Real, real slow selling products.

Bernie

Cox International wrote:I understand that but what I am saying is that you would have to start from scratch.

By the time you are done the inserts would cost just as much as making the OEM heads, so why not just make the OEM heads? I know what I pay for 049 inserts now and the seller gets them made in batches of 250,000. an 010 insert would cost at least double, therefore exceeding the price of making OEM heads.

We could sell max 200 - 300 of the 010 conversions per year, meaning we would buy 2,000 tops and that's being optimistic. I know how many 010 heads and other parts we sell. Real, real slow selling products.

Bernie

I know but the real reason is not price or practicality i am just a tinkerer and love to mess with anything i can get my hands on.

Yes, Nitro, I'm with you there. It is just that we are a for-profit business and would not tackle the project. However, if someone wants make and manufacture something Cox, we are more than willing to sell it in our e-stores.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

I can try making aluminium backplates with sand molds, I'm learning that right now

Cox International wrote:Yes, Nitro, I'm with you there. It is just that we are a for-profit business and would not tackle the project. However, if someone wants make and manufacture something Cox, we are more than willing to sell it in our e-stores.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Well I am thinking up some parts that I might get made and sell at a not for profit especially for the .010 because I've contacted Ron Val fr cranks and if prices are reasonable I might get some more made for others I am also thinking of pressure tapped aluminium backplates.
And if the cranks were to be made I would also make some diesel heads.
One other thing would be to try 3 piece pistons and who ever says they are not good for little engines just loom at Valentines they do nearly 30,000 rpm on a .010 prop and they are smaller.
These are all a big if but there are also some other things on the list and Bernie and Matt if they do get made you can have some at a price that's good for you.

Really if I get one crank made there is a high chance I'll get more and then I can make some diesel heads and it would all go from there.